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My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

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My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Anthony » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:56 pm

Tried to make more analog sounding version of my song Kapteeni (Captain - about fears of a young boy; http://www.mikseri.net/punkku). There are, however, some errors (or artifacts). I wonder if those low frequency swooshs (or flaps) originate from the free rendering tool (NRGui) or did I use wrong levels in my audio files or ...? If you care to listen and comment I'd be glad to know and learn more. Thanks!
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Mimi » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:28 am

It's hard to talk about these errors without knowing exactly what was done.
you used, which libraries? And which samplerate? 44 or 48 or 96khz ?
I heard the song, I felt the mix a little lost... A little coiled.
Not is a critical negative, not is my intention to be disrespectful... I apologize advance.
It's a song demo? It is only out of curiosity...There really is something fouling and distorting subtly this song...as a distortion by excess saturation volume in any instrument... Very strange.
A council a friend...
and if this song is the version for radio or for disclosure... I recommend a re-recording of the voices, and in the final edition an autotune, or melodyne...What is very common in music production today.
keyboards do it again... There VSTi very good free by web.
It's just a way to help,I'm sorry for what I I'm talking about, I'm trying to be honest... I know you can do much good, and has capacity.
A big hug my friend,and success.
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby mathias » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:36 am

nice little home-brewed song :)

please give some more information about programs you used, samplerates and what rms-levels your tracks had before rendering.
did you check the tracks one by one after rendering? where does the distortion occur?

mathias
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Anthony » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:42 am

Thank you for your comments Ms (Mimi & Mathias)!

The song is not meant for commercial markets; just don't collect everything only in my drawer. I'm hobbyist. Whereas a friend of mine who played perhaps six keyboard tracks on this song is professional musician. Keyboard was Yamaha S80, strings were from Steinbergs' VSTi Halion symphonic orchestra library and drums from Halion One. Rest are real instruments (acoustic and electric). But if some real artist / musician likes to make my song professionally for markets who am I to prevent it (it's registered at Composers' Copyright Society) but please do hurry because I'm not that young anymore.:)
I didn't really care - in this special case - if the vocals were perfectly in pitch (little boy fearing and imaging at night - voices and imaginary visions): I wrote few lines of lyrics, tried how it could be sung and recorded and same again... I don't like pitch correction plugins etc. The mic was not in perfect spot for recording vocals I suppose. Also my room is awful: small and square (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/340602-pros-etc-something-more-do.html and http://www.mikseri.net/photos.php?username=Tony%20Anthony) but I've made it a bit better with absorbers and diffusers.

Everything was recorded at 24 bit 96 kHz.
Used Nebula libraries were:
- AlexB: Vintage Blue Console, Vintage 73eQ, Black Master eQ and German Mastering Console
- CDSoundMaster: R2R and Tape Booster +
- ANALOGINTHEBOX: Mammoth EQ (+Expansion), Fate EQ, Doc Fear & APE Channel bundle and Fate Compressor (on drums)

RMS levels (e.g.):

Part B vocals
- RMS: average -18.80 dB (maximum: -8.5 dB)
-21.5 (max: -14.5)
After NrGui rendering: average -13.2 (max: -4.75)

Part A vocals: average -20.2 (max: -10.3)
After rendering: -14.5 (max: -5.2)
I must have done some processing after rendering (when bundling e.g. vocal tracks together as a stereo file) because I remember seen (when rendering) something like: rendering -21 dB -> -18 dB-> -21 dB.

Finished song (audio 16 bit 44.1 kHz: average RMS: -15 dB (max: -7.6, peaks: 0.00 dB. Peaks were -0.3 after rendering to 24 bit 96 kHz in Wavelab 7).

I use Cubase 5.5.1 and Wavelab 7 on 64 bit Windows 7 computer (which is too slow for realtime Nebula mixing; Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q6600 2.40 GHz, Memory 8 GB).

It's like puff of air e.g. at song positions 1 min 19 sek - 1:20 and 2:13 as heard on the "mastered" audio file, which most interests me when error hunting; maybe not so clearly heard on mp3 file.

Maybe I was too eager as a beginner Nebula user and used too many libraries and got too much harmonic distortion(?)
At the final "mastering" (my kind of mastering ;-)) stage I used Phoenix Audio's DRS-Q4 and it's ability to handle line level signals and brought the levels up before little limiting. (why there ain't analog limiter in Nebula world or is there?)
Anthony
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Mimi » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:12 pm

I understand...try using only libraries 96khz.
from what I understand you used nebula,for processing at 96khz.
The libraries of 44kHz are not well suited for processing in 96khz.
example: doc fear, ape channel and FatQ(I love this)...
Try again without these libraries or make a downgrade of the session to 44kHz... Maybe it solves.
Try to work with a plugin V.U, in master output,so that the peaks arrive at the 0dbvu.
I Produce a pop music, and did the keyboards and drums,of a song with the theme very similar.
A boy who lived of alms in Semaphore of City.
Creating anger in his heart...I posted this song here in the forum.
It's of album of singer Marcio G,for SONYBMG music Brazil .
Link to download:
http://www.4shared.com/audio/wIXMLmId/M ... __-_M.html
A big hug success and my friend,Good recordings.

The women's team of records of production in Brazil
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Anthony » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:43 pm

Thanks Mimi!

I think I used just 96 kHz libraries except Fate comp which is only available at 44 kHz so far.

I mastered a new version (using headphones), Kapteeni (analog 2): http://www.mikseri.net/punkku

I used GMC input and output, COOLTEC EQP-1A3S in between and Phoenix Audio's DRS-Q4 hardware for levelling. I decreased high frequencies among other things.
I wonder if I use to have too much transients in songs.

Will listen the linked song...
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Barendse » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:53 pm

Hmmm I wouldn't recommend mastering with headphones. Take a reference track you like and compare it to your track. It's a easy way to find out what the problem is.
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Anthony » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:04 pm

Barendse

I don't usually master with headphones, but you know my wife had also a day off today and was vacuum cleaning...
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby Barendse » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:12 pm

:D
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Re: My first "nebula song" - with errors :-(

Postby mathias » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:11 am

just a thought:
maybe you brought something up in your rendering/mixing/mastering which is on your recorded tracks, but was not clearly audible before.
you can check your original tracks with headphones one by one and clean them up, maybe some high and lowpass-filtering.
or some limiting/compression to tame transients and even out the levels.

if this doesn't change something, look for overloaded programs, maybe through transients or other level-jumps in your recordings.

did you check the programs, that you rendered with, by ear?
go step by step, to find what caused your issues. from the raw recordings through all the programs you used.

have fun :D

mathias
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
mathias
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