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Sample Rate Discussion (off of AITB Germanos EQ Thread)

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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby surbitone » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:33 pm

96k or 44.1? :ugeek:
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby rrrobo » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:11 am

fuseburn wrote:Anyone compared the W295b to the one by CDSoundmaster ?


To be honest its probably not worth it when Michael's is already available.

Sorry to be negative but using Prism conversion and Vovox cables and then setting everything to 44.1khz is a bit silly (as if there is nothing going through these electronics above 22.05Khz..).

Michael (CDSoundMaster) uses Mytek converters which are in the same league or higher than the Prism but he fully understands the benefit of capturing audio through these vintage units at 96khz which analoginthebox don't seem to. That's one reason I would take the CDSoundMaster W295b over the analoginthebox one even though I've not heard the AITB. Michael's is incredible and a bit underrated in my opinion - I think it has better deep bass and impossibly smooth highs (you don't notice what it's doing until you bypass kind of thing) than any other EQs I've tried and I have tried a lot. (All the best Neb EQs etc). I don't know, maybe it just fits my preference for high end EQ but I rate it very highly (read: at the top) for a sweetening/mastering EQ and also for adding thump to the low end along with the GML.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby tumburu » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:46 am

That GML is doing nothing if boosting less than 2dbs (or cutting for that matter), if you want to talk about proper sampling :roll:

Sometimes it does at 1.5, sometimes it does not, there's no rule and you don't know what it will do.

My Lavry converter sounds gorgeous at 44. I suppose you didn't listen to the Mammoth library before posting such statements. Anyway, the Siemens is probably the best eq from CDSM. Others behave inconsistent.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby TranscendingMusic » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:15 am

rrrobo wrote:
fuseburn wrote:Anyone compared the W295b to the one by CDSoundmaster ?


To be honest its probably not worth it when Michael's is already available.

Sorry to be negative but using Prism conversion and Vovox cables and then setting everything to 44.1khz is a bit silly (as if there is nothing going through these electronics above 22.05Khz..).

Michael (CDSoundMaster) uses Mytek converters which are in the same league or higher than the Prism but he fully understands the benefit of capturing audio through these vintage units at 96khz which analoginthebox don't seem to. That's one reason I would take the CDSoundMaster W295b over the analoginthebox one even though I've not heard the AITB. Michael's is incredible and a bit underrated in my opinion - I think it has better deep bass and impossibly smooth highs (you don't notice what it's doing until you bypass kind of thing) than any other EQs I've tried and I have tried a lot. (All the best Neb EQs etc). I don't know, maybe it just fits my preference for high end EQ but I rate it very highly (read: at the top) for a sweetening/mastering EQ and also for adding thump to the low end along with the GML.


This is very misinformative. As any user and collector of analog gear, when budget permits, one could collect two pieces of the same gear, especially vintage or boutique gear where every single instance will be somewhat different to yield unique character. Both AITB and CDSM's will be invaluable. As far as the converters go and sample rate: a set of high quality converters such as Mytek or Prisms will work just fine between 44.1 to 96 Khz. Quality made converters in fact work their best in this range. Anything higher than that would induce converter artifacts employing them even harder then they should be working. There is a point of diminishing returns. The filter is steep yet gentle enough within this range and some experts would even argue you could can very well work at 44.1 with no issues contingent on good DSP and good sense of engineering. There is nothing to be lost or gained sampling properly at 44.1 or 96, only different results. Different is different, neither good or bad.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby rrrobo » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:04 am

tumburu wrote:I suppose you didn't listen to the Mammoth library before posting such statements.


Yes I did. 'All the best Neb EQs' obviously includes Mammoth.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby kungfujeezus » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:47 am

rrrobo wrote:
fuseburn wrote:Anyone compared the W295b to the one by CDSoundmaster ?


To be honest its probably not worth it when Michael's is already available.

Sorry to be negative but using Prism conversion and Vovox cables and then setting everything to 44.1khz is a bit silly (as if there is nothing going through these electronics above 22.05Khz..).

Michael (CDSoundMaster) uses Mytek converters which are in the same league or higher than the Prism but he fully understands the benefit of capturing audio through these vintage units at 96khz which analoginthebox don't seem to. That's one reason I would take the CDSoundMaster W295b over the analoginthebox one even though I've not heard the AITB. Michael's is incredible and a bit underrated in my opinion - I think it has better deep bass and impossibly smooth highs (you don't notice what it's doing until you bypass kind of thing) than any other EQs I've tried and I have tried a lot. (All the best Neb EQs etc). I don't know, maybe it just fits my preference for high end EQ but I rate it very highly (read: at the top) for a sweetening/mastering EQ and also for adding thump to the low end along with the GML.


Well, that's a pretty ignorant thing to say in total. I only mix in 44.1 as do many of my peers, and I'd be interested to hear the differences in both libraries/units.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby rrrobo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:41 am

kungfujeezus wrote:Well, that's a pretty ignorant thing to say in total. I only mix in 44.1 as do many of my peers, and I'd be interested to hear the differences in both libraries/units.



Well you work at 44.1khz but not everyone does and because people do something doesn't make it what people should do.

Of course I understand the benefit of having two programs captured from different individual devices for the benefit of realism, in fact I was the one who brought this up recently on this forum, but it's not a good idea to have both programs if one is at 44.1khz and one is at 96khz as you will then be introducing SRC somewhere.

Obviously if you work at 44 you will probably get the AITB, and if you work at 96 you will get Michael's. But if you have a choice or are flexible about what rate you want to work at, then clearly the 96khz version is going to be the better option in terms of fidelity.

There's nothing strange about what I'm saying really, just that I don't see the point of chopping everything off at 22khz when we're ultimately trying to capture these devices as realistically as we can, and that in my opinion (not just mine) it's best to go for the highest fidelity libraries available.

This is not ignorant or misinformative, thanks.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby tumburu » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:52 am

Now you have a different tone. Writing cr*p about somebody's work without owning the product is not good in the first place.

Anybody is free to sample at whatever rate they want. You, as a customer are entitled to give suggestions if you consider that it's necessary. You can complain only if there are real problems.

So, this is a thread about the Germanos collection, if you please.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby rrrobo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:55 am

Hey why are you getting so defensive? I didn't write crap about any developer, I pointed out the anomaly that they use the best audio capture hardware available and set it to less than best settings - which is disappointing for me too! (I would love to get my hands on the AITB N*****n W492 etc) They did release the Mammoth at 96khz by request but now seem to have gone back to 44.1khz.

Anyone is of course free to compare the two regardless of mine or anyone else's opinion, so I don't really know why people are so hurt by this (apart from that they are being defensive of still working at 44.1khz, or that my words could put some people off this release, although this release could put some people off CDSoundMaster's release so I think that's fair).

I'm not talking from a point of ignorance by the way, I have used many of AITBs programs and don't find them to be as good as the equivalents from CDSoundMaster or AlexB and I think one reason is the choice of sample rate.
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Re: Germanos EQ Series (N*****n/Siemens/TAB/Telefunken)

Postby AlexB » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:14 pm

Theoretically is clear and after a tons of blind test, to my ears (as a lot of TOP engineer - Toni Maserati, Bob Katz, Bob Ohlsson and many others - search the interviews) 96kHz sounds better than 44.1kHz always. More air, separation, details. Period.

- If you work at 44.1kHz and use plugins/programs sampled at 44.1kHz it's OK.
- If you work at 44.1kHz and use plugins/programs sampled at 96kHz it sounds a little better.
- If you work at 96kHz and use plugins/programs sampled at 96kHz it's perfect.
- If you work at 96kHz and use plugins/programs sampled at 44.1kHz you lose the quality with downsampling and cutting your sound by steep filter.

They are the facts and for sure everyone is free to think and work with personal preferences.

About converters: Top notch converters like Mytek, UA2192, Prism (ADA series, not Prism Orpheus which is not so clean) and Weiss work perfectly if better even at 192kHz without artifacts.

At the final it's not a matter of what is the best, but what "you" like... And what you can hear :mrgreen:
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
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