Login

Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

If you need to write about anything else please do it here..

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby bottom1 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:51 pm

HIFIDELITY Thumbs Up... And I agree with you regarding Chrisj... if I could run AU plugs, I would mos def try out AirWindows... Aspergers (sp?) or not, Chris is very smart, and from what I gather a good Mastering Engineer... and he questions and give kudo's when necessary.

One thing I've learned from GS, is that people do way more posting than mixing... look at the users post counts, I don't trust their ears. You have to pick and choose your battles and weed through the misinformation. Also, if Nebula was a product that Tony Belmont was the sole distributor of Nebula would get it's recognition... Or if it had an A-List US engineer mix say they used it... the minions would follow suit.

As for the 22 instances... I doubt that also. The FX-G is brilliant at achieving loud, but the CPU hit is a crazy, and I still adjust my Latency settings, and I'm running a Dual Xeon... so the VCC is most likely going to be a pain.

At the end of the day, I gotta put my name on the finally product... so it's whatever works... For now Nebula's the best when it comes to console programs, I process and bounce the busses internally, and still use a D-Box for summing or a master buss program... when printing a mix. If it's a tool that works, I'm gonna use it.
bottom1
User Level V
User Level V
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:27 pm

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby SWAN » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:09 pm

tumburu wrote:
giancarlo wrote:They are raising the bar of hype too much imho, because if every developer would behave in that way ("we nailed it!", "omg, it sounds awesome!" "I can't believe that!", sic, I know, they will be emulated by other developers soon) there would be so much noise around till complete chaos, you would not trust developers any more.



Completely agree on that.

I think us, europeans, can observe these aspects, in USA this exaggerate competitive behavior is some kind of "normal". For me it is an unprofessional and off putting attitude. Sadly once they go this route they will never admit the inevitable flaws in their products and will have to feed the hype in this ridiculous way.


I couldnt agree more - I was outspoken about this early on in their announcements - and their thread titles - hypemongering. I understand why Chrisj was pissed off - good for him for speaking up. I cant stand the 'balls-out' US style marketing - its a real turn-off.
However FX-G is a great product no doubt - and I have to admit that the audio demos for VCC sound good - actually more easy to tell than the Nebula ones I hear. However - more obvious does not neccessarily mean better! I have NEVER liked any algo plugins saturation but who knows perhaps this will be ok...it will be in the demo...
Mac Mini i7 quad 2.6

Logic X
Live 9
Reaper
SWAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby AlexB » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:13 am

Hello, I'm returned now to home and have listened the VCC demo, read some posts and so....

I don't want to compare VCC with Nebula, but I'm not impressed. Sorry but I don't like the sound by plugin, I'm trained to listen the real music, real instruments, real gears and this console emulator sounds as... Plugin.
Also, I don't hear the "puff" sound in the bass and the silky highs, typical by N**e console as in the VBC and MWC. (I hear a muddy-castrated sound...). Or the detailed shining analog sound by S*L (here an over compressed lifeless sound).

Loud is not "sounds better".
Match the levels and align the tracks, than listen again.

I repeat again: (I speak in general) people may better to educate the ears because seems that today people love the fake instruments (VSTi) because they don't know how a real instrument sounds ! I have seen a blind test where people said that a real piano sounds fake and loving the orrible Ivory ! (Sorry but I'm also a pianist from Conservatory).
This happens with instruments, analog gears and also with the movies at the cine (called "digital fx" which remind me at the fake emulated sound by FM synth in the eighty).
This winter he has bought ALL my console...(MKII not the PRO)... Before to start the development... Very curious this... :roll:

I don't write in other forums for not to be accused of marketing (I have seen a lot of stupidity...) but the greatest lack of plugin developers seems to be "knowledge in electronics"...
I wait for the demo plugin to compare with my console but just for curiosity, I don't love what I have listened from the demo... Perhaps some people will love the plugin, as the people that love VSTi over a real instrument.

in the audio demo plugin and console are very close.... Too close, if you see at the spectrum analyzer... Really strange :mrgreen:
It seems to be that he has emulated also the converters which I suppose to be very cheap, since there is an exaggerated roll off from 8kHz in the N**e emulation. I have seen this roll off ONLY in the 1272 (the summing amp card from N**e **80 series) converted into mic-preamp BUT the 1272 in the console sounds very different due by different load impedance.
I stop me here 8-)

Good night
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
Facebook
WebSite
User avatar
AlexB
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: NW Italy

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby timothyallan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:31 am

The plot thickens! :)
timothyallan
User Level II
User Level II
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby TranscendingMusic » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:10 am

I'm not knocking Slate stuff, algorithmic stuff at all nor am I saying I would never use Slate stuff (FG-X is really nice for example) or algorithmic stuff in general because I do. However, for the sake of veracity and comprehension I say this: due to the nature of analog, one can not truly re-create its character by simply using algorithmic code. Secondly, one certainly can't insist that they've emulated an element such as cross-talk in a mixbus.

The first point: when it comes to encompassing analog, the variables are SO many. Although not 100% comparable to analog, consequently because of its complexity, Nebula does possess a rich random behaviour just as well and can not be reproduced with code. Simply, the algorithmic approach can only go so far, because coding a behavior is then statically set. It will be the same through that static code. The complexities of the non-linear behavior of analog as well as Nebula can not be replicated thru code because 1) the limiting factors of technology 2) but then putting the limitations aside, the inherent nature of algorithmic code can't duplicate Nebula's dynamic behavior. And when technology gets better and faster, so does Nebula's power exponentially leaving any remnant of a more or less linear and static algorithmic system behind. And then adding in more variables, more complexity it truly becomes impossible for code to replicate copious amounts of non-linear information.

The pseudo-random behaviour that Nebula can replicate of the analog world is a consequence of the impressive number of variables that can and are taken in account from the core engine.

A standard algorithmic approach is based on a single function which in general the next state is calculated as a function of the previous state and the input variables derived from say an electronic schema. So in solving any equation to create an algorithm then you get something deterministic or 'static', the nature of this type of code as compared to Nebula.

Second point: cross-talk is non-predictive behavior that is solely contingent on the channels interaction with one another. One can claim emulated main groupbus cross-talk but you then run into the issue of 1) the predominant cross-talk character is from the channel interactions mostly 2) you are talking about emulating this behavior through limited code once again with set variables not taking into account unqiue dynamic responses at that specific point in time of those specific tracks.

I said a lot about the first point above on Gearslutz months ago! But nobody really wanted to pay any mind to it. Again I'm not saying the coded stuff can't sound good or nice or is not useful - hell, I use it myself of course. But for the sake of "the truth", let's call a spade a spade. I'm not here to say what's THE BEST just simply to clear up the notion that something is ground breaking when there is a more comprehensive method above it that people won't acknowledge.
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby RJHollins » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:34 am

personally .... and JMO ... I'd rather our programmers and developers continue doing just that, and 'maybe' make sporatic postings at places like GS.

Product will speak for itself I believe. 8-)
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
RJHollins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:53 pm

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby SWAN » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:51 am

TM I think your appriasal of algorithmic emulation is interesting and I agree with some of it - but I think you 'could' argue that the actual important factor is whether analogue non-linear behaviour can be modelled well enough to be past the best human ears capability of distinguishing the difference? By then it becomes a moot point surely whether or not there is further dynamic activity happening in the real analogue signal as opposed to the emulated?
Its quite simple to castigate algorithms as static but they are only static from one theoretical standpoint - and if they are well coded I think you can argue they are definitely not static...?
The issue for me is that these days you have very skillful code teams - but actually it is their ears that is most important in tuning the code - just as Alex B ears are important in him making the best programs...also in the future higher sample rates will improve the quality of algo.

As a simple consumer who really just wants to make good sounding music - sometimes it can be difficult to know who to believe in these situations. The Philosopher Ken Wilbur once said that you can not rely completely on a opinion from a man who's financial interest is tied into his opinion...however sometimes the differences are so slight with these console programs that you have to wonder what is best when trying to make your own decision. I am a huge Nebula supporter but I do not follow blindly like a pathetic fanboi (which I think is damaging to a company) - I try to follow for the right reasons.

The Nebula technology has been the only time I have liked ITB colour or saturation and has made me feel happier using a DAW - and so even tho I personally find the console emulations slight - it makes sense to me that Nebula will be doing it best at low levels also. From my previous experience with algo plugins - VCC likely will be producing the common algo plugin 'over-the-top' processing to let the kids hear the process too much...as opposed to true analogue which IS subtle.

Anyways - it is starting to appear that the exciting difference between the Slate ITB and console examples is a 1.3 db gain rise...and further EQ matching makes even more close...so actually - when you make the test fair - just like Alex B has always done with level matching - VCC isnt quite the hype excitement that it appears...

Lots of fun 8-)
Mac Mini i7 quad 2.6

Logic X
Live 9
Reaper
SWAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby mertayy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:58 am

Its a hype, look what happened to UAD M****y Massive Passive no one is speaking of it now :D When I wrote it wasn't anything special, everyone jumped at me at GS.

I discussed this with a mastering engineer sometime ago, home or semi-pro engineers losts their taste of transients in these modern times. They can only hear "warmth" when freq. response changes due to FX and saturation is simply distortion to them.

Why? 2 reasons:

1-They all regularly listen smashed masters as reference or hobby. These are clipped and lots of distortion is there, it kills healthy coloration, dynamics and there's a lowered tonal resolution effect to it too (due to most times too much high-cut).

2-They're too familiar with mp3 sound. They developed liking to low resolution. If you watch black and white TV all the time, how can you comment if a new plazma TV is good? just because it has color doesn't make it good 8-)

Discussion is good but no need to take it too serious. I think its best that Nebula isn't mentioned there, one can do the test if he wants when its released...
mertayy
Member
Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:23 pm

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby lordnielson » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:14 pm

This sounds like the UAD forum..
lordnielson
Member
Member
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:29 pm
Location: Copenhagen

Re: Slate Digital VCC N**e emu soundz real Gooooood!!

Postby AlexB » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:46 pm

mertayy wrote:Its a hype, look what happened to UAD M****y Massive Passive no one is speaking of it now :D When I wrote it wasn't anything special, everyone jumped at me at GS.

Agree

mertayy wrote:I discussed this with a mastering engineer sometime ago, home or semi-pro engineers losts their taste of transients in these modern times. They can only hear "warmth" when freq. response changes due to FX and saturation is simply distortion to them.

Why? 2 reasons:

1-They all regularly listen smashed masters as reference or hobby. These are clipped and lots of distortion is there, it kills healthy coloration, dynamics and there's a lowered tonal resolution effect to it too (due to most times too much high-cut).

2-They're too familiar with mp3 sound. They developed liking to low resolution. If you watch black and white TV all the time, how can you comment if a new plazma TV is good? just because it has color doesn't make it good 8-)

Discussion is good but no need to take it too serious. I think its best that Nebula isn't mentioned there, one can do the test if he wants when its released...

Agree

I'm the 1st to say that Nebula doesn't sounds exactly like the hardware but it is very close. I have begun to sample the consoles because there was not a plugin that sounds really in this way, and I had need that sound for my music.
Says that...
Some "uneducated" guys (I'm referring to listening education and knowledge of the real sound) believed in the "mixing like a record" way to emulate the console sound, and still believe that this is the right sound. Charles (a master in the marketing) has convinced everybody that "channel strip pro" sounds like a console. So it's normal that some guys believe that VCC sounds like a console and follow the VCC marketing. Probably is a usable plugin for someone, I prefer to not use it at all to not damage my sound with fake character, loss of depth and opening (strange, every good console gives open, detailed, deep sound). The only wrong thing is that their declare that sounds like a console... Nothing more wrong :!:
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
Facebook
WebSite
User avatar
AlexB
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: NW Italy

PreviousNext

Return to Other things

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests