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Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

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Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby FrankSharp » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:23 am

Hi nerds,
I think if I can find someone who has an idea of old equipment then here...
Anyone has an idea what kind of equipment this studio had or could have had 1973?
Especially the console and the reverb..(?)
Here you find a short piece of a recording made in this studio 1973 I'm talking about:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ei5wh9o5wuji9 ... d.mp3?dl=0

... I know.. nobody would make this sound today.. but Acustica customers are a little 'different' I hope .. lol

Thanks a lot for any ideas..
Cheers, Franz
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby FrankSharp » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:48 am

..if you have problems with the dropbox link:
I'm talking about this album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfTT8IStd_0

thanks...
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby RE301 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:53 pm

On discogs quite the impressive list of jazz albums recorded there, plus some big pop names like Olivia Newton John etc: http://www.discogs.com/label/303604-Group-IV-Recording-Studios

Here's interviews with Dennis Sands, owner of a 'Group IV Studio' in LA, oriented toward film & orchestral work, but both interviews mention they opened in 1977 ..

http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/dennis-sands/365394

http://www.bsospirit.com/entrevistas/dennissands_e.php
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby RE301 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:01 pm

On consoles, my guess would be whatever of the best-sounding, most professional consoles they had around in those days with perhaps an emphasis on tv/film/orchestral work.. contenders could be things like A*I, N*ve..but given a film/tv direction perhaps consoles like Electrodyne, Quad Eight...(?)..

There's loads of options in Nebula for vintage A*I & N*ve consoles such as the Alex B libraries.. in the territory of Electrodyne, Quad 8 etc CD Soundmaster has the "Q8 444X EQ/CONSOLE COMBO" and also the 'Globe' console (Sph*re.. which is of a similar ilk to Quad 8 / Electrodyne.. in the same 'family tree'..)...

The reverb on the youtube link sounds like a plate reverb, presumably the all-time classic EMT 140 .. VNXT Sound has an incredible EMT 140 library for Nebula... (read the VNXT instructions carefully on how to tweak the master settings in Nebula so as to use the library in the optimum way).

In the Mixmag interview Sands mentions his first purchase as a mixer was of several Ne*mann M-50's - a now super rare $$ 'secret weapon' mic optimized for orchestral recording. Plus, prior to opening Group IV he built up a massive amount of experience recording jazz legends, plus film & TV sessions - mainly while he was a house engineer at the legendary Cherokee Studios in LA (which had a Trid*nt A Range console...)

IMO the fantastic 'natural' sound in the Joe Pass example clip (assuming it was recorded by Dennis Sands) is probably for a large part down to his ears & years of experience Sands had in making exactly this type of recording: performances live off the floor... plus great quality mics like his M-50's through some kind of top quality mic preamp.. and the mic placement / sound of the space.. :-)

In the Mixmag interview (from 2002) I notice Sands does mention using N*ve 1081's in his tracking rig.. Alex B has these in the Neev 81 Sidecar library...


Alex B http://www.alessandroboschi.eu/html/alexb/nebula_programs.htm
CD SoundMaster http://cdsoundmaster.com
VXNT http://vnxtsound.blogspot.nl/

Hope this helps! :-)
Last edited by RE301 on Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby FrankSharp » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:55 pm

Wow.. thanks a lot! I knew I would find nerds here :-)
On the YouTube video the voice doesn't sound as sharp as it really sounds on a CD. Nowadays everybody would add some De-Essers and say it sounds terrible :-)
It's because I should work on a recording made with an old N*****n, actually from the time where the company name was Telefunken... and it sounds pretty much like what I hear on Ella's voice.. well, just speaking about frequencies.. not about how she sings.. there's no emulation for Ella :-)
I thought the reverb could be kind of a spring reverb... but yes, I think ur right; EMT could be a great choice.
Again... thanks a lot for this hints.. very appreciate it!
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby RE301 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:19 pm

I love a good 'ol treasure hunt for info to 'decode' old recordings & studios :-)

On the Joe Pass / Fitzgerald album the sound does very much bear the hallmarks of Neum*nn mics, the vocal sound especially! I would bet money on the vocal mic with this recording being a U-47.. There's a kind of slight high end boost / lift with this classic vocal mic, the U-47 and I think there is a high end lift actually built into the design of the M-50's (with a view to their intended purpose as distant orchestral mics)..

In the 'old days', the complement of Neum*nn large diaphragm condenser mics & tape was a very good combination because tape kind of 'mellowed' out the high end but in the age of digital recording sometimes people find there is too much 'presence' - which is why IMO there has been such a resurgence of ribbon mics (since the natural high-end roll off with ribbon mics is a perfect complement with digital recording..)
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby FrankSharp » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:25 pm

Yes, that's what I also already found out.. I for sure need a tape emulation for the highs.
Just wanted to add: I'm stupid.. this record is not from 1973 but 1986.. anyway.. the mic is pretty sure an old U-47... thanks!
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby RE301 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:30 pm

:-)

In the Nebula tape department - the CD SoundMaster ATR in the Apex tape collection is very nice indeed, also when combined with the Tape Booster Plus TB+ plugin..

Tim P has a tape library out now which sounds good, and also Signal To Noize has a NAG tape libary which sounds quite nice..
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby FrankSharp » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:57 pm

Thanks... will check them out... so far I know some tries to reduce this highs with EQ and De-Essers... everything sounds horrible... Nebula tape is THE (next) idea!!! :-)
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Re: Group IV Recording Studios Los Angeles 1973

Postby beingmf3 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:22 pm

FrankSharp wrote:Thanks... will check them out... so far I know some tries to reduce this highs with EQ and De-Essers... everything sounds horrible... Nebula tape is THE (next) idea!!! :-)

Rolling them off with a Pultec (even simulteaneous boost/cut) works a treat!

If the recording is okay, of course :)
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