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Not exactly a third party library...

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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby yr » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:45 pm

TranscendingMusic wrote:Actually mathias nailed it and spot on with the descriptions too, just as I experienced this plugin. yr, just for clearing it up, was I right about my assessment in your first shootout post?


Yes, but only partially with your description (at least to my ears). It's true that when you compare the HS, the PSP sounds darker and fuller. However, when you use the LS/mid, I feel that the PSP has more air on top and goes lower at the same time (as long as you compensate for the "automatic" HF reduction). I think generally, the PteQ tends to sound tighter on the bass, and the HM is more pronounced (completely agree with Mathias). The PSP sounds a bit sweeter but perhaps slightly less focused. Both are very good and equally useful in my mind.
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby TranscendingMusic » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:00 am

I can't argue with that, I thought so too that PSP made a very useful EQ here. I haven't messed with the mid a lot yet but they probally really meant to emulate a very "slow" and "tubish" aspect of a pultec by the way you describe that LS/mid. For the sake of candor in functionality I try not to match the two eq's (except in amplitude, as you did correctly) just to understand how a particular plugin would be within a mix right off the bat. Which is why,"inherently" without compensation or matching, I'd call it darker. But anyway I think we've come to a point where really good coding is possible in a traditional sense. I'm just still waiting on my hybrid (nebula+algo) idea to come to fruition! :shock:
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby yr » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:08 am

yes please!

About matching- of course you are right. But I was very interested to know how they compare when I match the settings. The default THD level of the PSP is high (too high for me) and the automatic roll-off is pretty annoying too. Luckily they can be tweaked.
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby TranscendingMusic » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:34 am

Of course I totally get it...
Regarding the hybrid, I am no coder I'd need help with that! But the idea I think is bound to happen if not by Acustica or of the community, somebody "out there" perhaps. It's no coincidence that when Nebula started to push out consoles, traditional dev's started to put out their versions. Because even if they don't use Volterra Kernels they can be analyzed with such and create innovations with algo plugs. It actually may have occured already with one of the well knowns out there.
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby mertayy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:12 pm

My demo period is almost over. In my (very) limited time when trying it on complex material I noticed it can really decrease dynamics.

Tried this some may like it, insert normal eq and decrease using low-shelve (like somewhere from 200-300 hz), place nobleq, now copy that same normal eq but increase the shelve as same value as decreased.

Now hit the input hard with gain from first eq, I noticed it almost sound like some other companys tape emulations (the shelves are for bass not to distort quick) and it compresses things pretty obviously.

This made me think that "tube" stage is sort of multiband clipping (or limiting) so nothing new or exicing about it, just a good balance-rest is min-phase eq...

Don't get me wrong its a good eq for good price, but I'm still the nebula guy :lol:
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby yr » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:26 pm

I've made several tests with this EQ and it's very accurate dynamically. I measured both peak and average levels and compared them to the original file each time. If you check the LS with the analyzer you will notice that it is very broad/wide even when you set it to 20Hz so that could create some confusion.

The funny thing is that the Pteq I used for the shootout, was actually enhancing some of the transients. So it was in a way less accurate dynamically. I remember noticing the same thing with the test files that were posted for the cootec- the Nebula version was more dynamic then the actual hardware when you compared both to the dry unprocessed track.
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby richie43 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:49 pm

yr wrote:The funny thing is that the Pteq I used for the shootout, was actually enhancing some of the transients. So it was in a way less accurate dynamically. I remember noticing the same thing with the test files that were posted for the cootec- the Nebula version was more dynamic then the actual hardware when you compared both to the dry unprocessed track.


Isn't that one of the desirable things (for some people) about hardware or good Nebula hardware emulation? That not perfect but very organic and "human" quality? I love the fact that if you pass the same audio through hardware or Nebula twice, the resulting 2 wave-forms will not be identical.
And the NobleQ, even not being Nebula, seems to me to be a more useful plugin than any non-Nebula plugin I have tried in a long while. I have started to get so adamant about Nebula that I quit listening to other plugins with an open mind and open ears.
If a tool is useful, then it is useful.
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby mertayy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:41 pm

yr wrote:I've made several tests with this EQ and it's very accurate dynamically. I measured both peak and average levels and compared them to the original file each time. If you check the LS with the analyzer you will notice that it is very broad/wide even when you set it to 20Hz so that could create some confusion.

The funny thing is that the Pteq I used for the shootout, was actually enhancing some of the transients. So it was in a way less accurate dynamically. I remember noticing the same thing with the test files that were posted for the cootec- the Nebula version was more dynamic then the actual hardware when you compared both to the dry unprocessed track.


I did use buddle analyzer to see what freq. changes happen, but I didn't mesure it dynamicly.

But I invite you to try what I mentioned above, I just did it again and almost all dynamics were killed-when push extreme the result sound very familiar to clipping.

Infact, set a gain plug-in before it (like sonalksis freeg) then place nobleq with highest tube setting. Boost gain and try to see DAW master out-put pass 0db. In samplitude with these settings you can't pass -4.1 db peak.
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby yr » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:20 pm

I repeated your test and had +6dBFS (and more) in Wavelab. But I still don't understand what you are testing. If you are comparing this plugin to Nebula you should use it the same way. I don't think the designers meant it to be used as a clipping tool. It doesn't seem to compress/limit the dynamics under normal working conditions (at least not in my tests).
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Re: Not exactly a third party library...

Postby mertayy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:19 pm

yr wrote:I repeated your test and had +6dBFS (and more) in Wavelab. But I still don't understand what you are testing. If you are comparing this plugin to Nebula you should use it the same way. I don't think the designers meant it to be used as a clipping tool. It doesn't seem to compress/limit the dynamics under normal working conditions (at least not in my tests).


Interesting that the results are different between daw's, my point is actually very simple;

I place any plug-in, boost its output to 36 db with source 0db peaking master, I simply get +36 db on master output which is clipping.

Without changing anything on first plug-in, I simply insert nobleq (its default is tube engaged) after it I don't see +36 db clipping, result is lower.

This simply means either the nobleq is gently clipping or compressing the signal. If it was a regular min-phase eq inserted after first plug-in, peak signal wouldn't change (again +36 db).

But this doesn't mean it sounds bad or anything, depending on how hot its input it simply decreases dynamics to achieve color.

From this point we can say that if color is liked by user, pushing it is beneficial. Also I wouldn't be surprised if mastering engineers started using it for louder masters.
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