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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.3 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby mathias » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:16 am

now i got it to render my file (v 0.3).
when i first pressed render, nothing happened (only the inputstatements to renderer), then i started to play the file again for testing other programs.
after a few seconds rendering started and completed successfully, file is okay.
by the way, the renderbutton does not reset after rendering, it still shows stop rendering and the program thinks it is still rendering and will not close.

mathias
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.3 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby zabukowski » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:27 am

Seems like there is something really wrong/specific overthere :( I've experienced none of your problems so far - can't reproduce them, either. On the other side, your working osx version shows that there is a specific problem on a windows system. I am suspecting this is Nebula related. Other stability problems are most likely related to that.

You also said that bypassed playback is OK, so without Nebula processing things seem to run well.

So, I need more details:

OS: ?
CPU: ?
RAM: ?
Nebula version: ? (log window)
Nebula delay compensation ? (log window)

I will upload 0.4 soon. It will have an option to set internal buffer size (performance related) and option to save log window to file, which you will send to me. Then we'll see.

Thanks a lot for your time and testing - I really appreciate it :)

Could someone else please try latest NebulaMan. I would like to know if this erratic behaviour is common.

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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.3 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby RJHollins » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:42 pm

Hi Z,

I had the chance to do a quick test with .3a

I too was having issues with playback jitter. In
by-pass mode was fine.

I'll post back with more system info, but basically
running XP-Pro sp2, Q9450 quad-core, 4g rams.
ASIO 1024.
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.3 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby mathias » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:55 pm

the infos you asked for:
Nebula man 0.3
OS: windows xp sp3
CPU: intel pentium m 1,86 ghz
RAM: 1 gb ram
Nebula version: 1.3.466 (log window)
Nebula delay compensation: 16451 samples (log window)

ram use with a demanding program is around 700 mb, cpu 40 - 50 %

this is my older studio-laptop, but quite often in use for mobile recording. i will wait for nebula-server before i upgrade my systems (i hope it will come soon :-)).

mathias
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.3 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby zabukowski » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:31 pm

Ok, I think I am making some progress.

I've found a nasty bug with rendering, so I hope these rendering crashes will go away (osx version was also affected)

Soon I will upload NebulaMan 0.4, which will allow fine playback tuning by setting program's audio buffer size. We'll see how it will affect performance for all of you.

Mathias, I can imagine your laptop is suffering from dropouts - it is very far from an ideal machine for Nebula. Let's wait for 0.4 to see if this can be improved.

RJHollins, this jitter sounds also like cpu overload problem - but i think this is very unlikely with your machine. Let's wait for 0.4.

Thanks everybody for participating!
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.3 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby zabukowski » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:52 am

0.4

http://www.zabukowski.com/software/Nebu ... .4_win.rar

- configurable internal working audio buffer size (always use "Change" button to confirm)
- ASIO output can now be selected - playback must be restarted
- popup context menu - save log window to a file
- fixed memory allocation bug (crash) with rendering
- ASIO Digidesign Driver temporarily blacklisted (initialization crash)
- ...

Try to experiment with an audio buffer size - it determines how big are pieces of data, which are read from audio file and processed thru Nebula. Bigger values should probably improve performance with slower machines.

With my I7 920 + F*******e Saffire LE i can go as low as 128 samples. With core2duo + Fireface, 256 samples is minimum. Max value (16384) is working ok on both machines.

Recommended value (default) is 1024 samples.

This parameter is not directly related to soundcard latency.

osx version will follow soon.

Thanks!
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.4 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby RJHollins » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:25 am

Hi Z !

A quick test of v .4

Seems to be working very well now.
Only tried ASIO buffer settings down to 1024.

I did notice that BOTH buffers need to be set to the
same value [ASIO & NebMan] ... if that makes sense.
At first I had different settings & had glitches, but
once I changed them to the same value ... all worked!

Hope that helped :)
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.4 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby zabukowski » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:06 pm

RJHollins wrote:Hi Z !

A quick test of v .4

Seems to be working very well now.
Only tried ASIO buffer settings down to 1024.

I did notice that BOTH buffers need to be set to the
same value [ASIO & NebMan] ... if that makes sense.
At first I had different settings & had glitches, but
once I changed them to the same value ... all worked!

Hope that helped :)


Good news !

ASIO buffer affects sound card's performance & latency, Nebula Man buffer affects file reading & Nebula processing performance. They both run in a separate, synchronized threads.

Optimal settings of both buffers heavily depend on your CPU, sound card, overall system performance etc.

For example, on my I7 system using Asio4all driver, I set audiocard buffer to 64 samples and then NebulaMan audio buffer size to any value from 128 to 16384 samples. It works without noticeable problems.

NebulaMan buffer sizes 32 and 64 are causing playback artifacts/slowdown regardless of audiocard buffer size.

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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.4 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby mathias » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:23 pm

here is my short test, windows system as before.

the new buffer option is the key to get rid of crackles in audioplayback. for me it is mostly the internal buffersize of nebulaman that affects performance. i have to take at least 2048 samples to get it working without crackles. the audiocard buffersize can vary from 128 to 1024 samples, this does not affect performance that much.
great so far!

my question for rendering:
i rendered one file for testing and it took about 30 seconds until the progressbar started to show the rendering. is that meant to be like this? or my slow system?
after rendering, the program is still hanging in rendering mode, doesn't let me close without harsh methods (taskmanager).

beside these difficulties, i start to like that program :)

will we get the option of nebula-chains for rendering?
render complete folders?

greetings,
mathias
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
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Re: NEBULAMAN 0.4 - New cross-platform develop. env. preview

Postby zabukowski » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:48 pm

mathias wrote:here is my short test, windows system as before.

the new buffer option is the key to get rid of crackles in audioplayback. for me it is mostly the internal buffersize of nebulaman that affects performance. i have to take at least 2048 samples to get it working without crackles. the audiocard buffersize can vary from 128 to 1024 samples, this does not affect performance that much.
great so far!

my question for rendering:
i rendered one file for testing and it took about 30 seconds until the progressbar started to show the rendering. is that meant to be like this? or my slow system?
after rendering, the program is still hanging in rendering mode, doesn't let me close without harsh methods (taskmanager).

beside these difficulties, i start to like that program :)

will we get the option of nebula-chains for rendering?
render complete folders?

greetings,
mathias


It is great that playback is working now !

Regarding rendering, I guess there is still something wrong . Are crashes gone ??

When you press "Render to file", program opens 2nd Nebula instance (1st is already loaded for playback) and load the same program into it as for 1st instance. So we have 2 identical nebula instances with identical program loaded. Because of this, program is capable of rendering in background and playing a file at the same time. You can even load another program without affecting background rendering. This also means that resources needed are doubled.

So, with your system there could be some kind of "out of memory" problem, I don't know yet. Nebula is rather CPU and memory hungry (also depends on loaded program size). This slow rendering and obvious hang at the end may be because of memory problems.

Soon, I will put some kind of memory consumption info in the NebulaMan.

For a start, you can send me a log file. Start NebulaMan, load a program, preview etc. Then start rendering. When rendering is 100% done, right click on the log window and select "Save contents to file". This will create "nebulaman.log" inside NebulaMan program folder.

Please send this file to zabukowski@gmail.com

I'll try to get more information from log file. Then we'll go further.

I am glad you like this program so far. I have a huge amount of ideas for further features. If time (and other parameters :) will allow me, NebulaMan will be MUCH more powerful than NRGUI PRO !!!

Thanks !!!
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