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Saving master page AHEAD time

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Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby Tim Petherick » Wed May 01, 2013 9:51 am

Hi,

I seem to have a problem with saving ahead time in master page.

It seems to be quite random and never seems to stick to one setting?! I was wondering if anyone had the same problem?


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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby Mplay » Wed May 01, 2013 10:49 am

Did you clear the temp folder? I think that solved it for me
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby Ryo_ » Wed May 01, 2013 11:08 am

I have a same problem.
I set ahead length at 1.0ms in MAST page and save, and then seeing XML file, <AHEAD> becomes around 952 to 997, not 1000.

And not only saving but loading seems to have a same problem.
After I load any preset a few time when choosing, ahead length is reduced randomly.(in my case, 1.0ms becomes 0.9ms)

I tried deleting the files in the nebula's temp folder, but it's not solved.
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby enriquesilveti » Wed May 01, 2013 11:14 am

Nice tip! If I recall correctly. There are two main parameter in Nebula MAST page related with that settings. FORCEOFFSET tag is the maximum length value that Nebula will allow and AHEADLENGTH tag is the look-ahead value. So for example to have 3 ms of look-ahead available you should have:

<FORCEOFFSET> 3000 </FORCEOFFSET>

and ahead length from

<AHEADLENGTH> 3000 </AHEADLENGTH>

to

<AHEADLENGTH> 0 </AHEADLENGTH>

IMPORTANT: More FORCEOFFSET, more latency...
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby Tim Petherick » Thu May 02, 2013 6:05 pm

Thank you, maybe I'll reference customers to this page if they have any problems with saving ahead times.

Cheers
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby FrankydT » Fri May 03, 2013 2:20 am

Pardon me Enrique,

what's the recommended setting for Nebula Compressor? (for a mid-high end computer?)
I prefer to stay with the developer's recommended setting.
My system:
Mac Pro 2008 2 x 2.8 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6.8 all up to date
20 Gb Ram 800 Mhz DDR2 F8 (for now)
4 Internal hard disk 7200 rpm and 2 fireware 800 external
All is optimized for audio only (no internet or else, I've another partition with Mountain Lion for other things)
I have some other analog gears too...
(I've to start to go on Win Bootcamp and learn NAT...)
I don't think an upgrade of my system will take me (for now) to heaven
Anyway, I'd experimented a little;
And for me, with Nebula's maximum buffer (8192 or whatever), in Logic Pro, I can have a good lookahead without touching the setting you are talking about.
(I've usually tweaked the xml but I've always retrieved it it in Nebula)

Maybe it's a fake setting?

Thank you for your time.

Anyway, can you fix the last release on mac?
1.3.505 release (normal, not the 64 bit vst upgrade, and not even this) is not even seen by Reaper. (for me, plus auth errors for AITB...)
I had to downgrade to 1.3.502
(Checked the vst content, info.plist matches with Nebula3C3)
If you have problems with Lion or Mountain Lion's Xcode (whatever you own) I can help you out
I have a Snow Leopard partition and another with Mountain Lion as I said. (and another with Win 7 Pro 64)
I can tell you how to resolve the problem. (My tweak worked for me)
And it's not so a difficult thing...
And, anyway, you can ask to GEGE (He's more experienced than me)

Thank you Enrique, bye
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby enriquesilveti » Fri May 03, 2013 10:03 am

Look Ahead has no impact in CPU/RAM performance. But some sequencer can not handle long buffers. Giancarlo is researching in VST x64 OSX 10.8 & 10.9. There is a big bug in VSTGUI4 in PC and MAC. I'm also researching in VST to AAX bridging.
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby Cupwise » Fri May 17, 2013 9:45 pm

i don't see how it could work that way. i have my xml like this:
<FORCEOFFSET> 1500 </FORCEOFFSET>
<AHEADLENGTH> 13000 </AHEADLENGTH>

i haven't touched forceoffset, but i changed aheadlength to provide MORE look ahead possible. i don't understand why you would ever want LESS. ? the setting only adjust the maximum allowed, is my understanding, and it seems to be the case.

out of those two parameters the only one i see having any effect on the max allowable look-ahead, as you can set in the 'edit' 'glob' page in neb, is the aheadlength. mine being set at 13000 allows look-ahead to be set at just below 6ms.

if you lower that number all you do is make it so that a nebula program can't have longer look aheads. it won't actually change anything about how they sound or work, in any way, that you can't accomplish by adjusting your own program individually. so why do it? it actually may change some other programs if you set it below 1.5ms allowable look-ahead which many programs use by default. all it's going to do is lower their look-aheads down to 1ms now, which may cause their attacks to sound different. why do that? if you want to have less look-ahead in your own programs, adjust it in those programs to be less. don't change master settings that lower everyones' look ahead. it doesn't make sense. on the other hand, if you RAISE that value, it will have absolutely no effect on anyone elses' programs, because it's just a max allowed setting. it only directly effects a program if you set it lower than the look-ahead a program is using. i see absolutely no reason to ever do that though. why put limits there for no reason?


i'm not exactly sure what forced offset does, but i can definitely tell that even if i keep it at the same number, i get different look ahead lengths possible by adjusting the lookaheadlength number. in my opinion the lookaheadlength number should be set HIGHER, because all it does is allow devs to have more leeway with where they want to set it. if you want a lower lookahead, adjust it in your program. but if you want a longer one, a higher value in that tag allows it. all it does is change the allowed range. i see absolutely no reason to ever set that lower and lower. it should be set at a value allowing up to maybe 20ms, by acustica. i just don't get why it's set to only allow 1.5ms look-ahead by default, or why anyone would want to lower it to allow even less. just set your program to less.
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby enriquesilveti » Sun May 19, 2013 7:24 pm

<FORCEOFFSET> 1500 </FORCEOFFSET>
<AHEADLENGTH> 13000 </AHEADLENGTH>


Maximum Look Ahead will be 1500 samples

With:

<FORCEOFFSET> 13000 </FORCEOFFSET>
<AHEADLENGTH> 13000 </AHEADLENGTH>

Maximum Look Ahead will be 13000 samples and minimum 0 but you will add 13000 samples of latency.
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Re: Saving master page AHEAD time

Postby Cupwise » Sun May 19, 2013 10:07 pm

if that's true then what does the 'lookaheadlength' tag even do!?

why have a lookaheadlength tag, if the max look ahead is determined by some other tag?! that's just madness! :o

and besides that doesn't seem to be the case anyway. i already said in my previous post- if i leave forceoffset alone and increase lookaheadlength, nebula then allows me to set the look ahead longer in the edit/glob page. not only does it allow me to set it longer, but when i adjust mix5 (default look ahead control), it definitely gives me more look ahead.

try loading a compressor program with lookaheadlength set to the default setting in the xml that only allows up to 1.5ms. then change it like i showed, without adjusting the forceoffset. after the change you can increase look-ahead to a point where all transients are caught. without the change you can't. changing lookaheadlength definitely seems to be adjusting the max length of lookahead. it definitely causes nebula to show you being able to get a longer look ahead in 'edit' 'glob', and it definitely has some kind of effect on the look ahead you actually get.

if forceoffset is what actually adjusts the lookahead, then why is there a lookaheadlength tag?

a better question- why is there even a tag for any of this stuff in the nebula master settings file in the first place? why can't nebula just allow up to 20ms lookahead by default, and have that adjustable by the individual program?! it makes no sense!


the program itself saves it's own 'maximum look ahead length' setting, AND an actual current setting for the look ahead. that's already TWO settings for look ahead saved in the program itself. WHY does there need to be yet another maximum loko ahead allowed setting in the master config?

and why is it set to only allow 1.5ms look ahead.

that would be like having a default master setting in the nebula config file that only allowed 1db of compression, and people had to go in there and change it to allow more. why have a limit in the first place if the program can set these things themselves, and if there is going to be a master limit, why have it set so low? this question applies to both the look ahead master limit, and the timed length master limit. it creates too much confusion if a dev wants more timed length or look ahead and has to tell people to edit the master nebula config. why can't i just set them how i want in my programs?!
Last edited by Cupwise on Mon May 20, 2013 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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