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Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

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Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby fuseburn » Thu May 05, 2011 11:30 am

Hi there !

Some of you might remember the "x64 sounds different than x86"-thread.
I think I found the possible culprit for that particular behaviour. I had the problem that x64 sounded worse than x86 Nebula (both in Reaper 64) and I couldn't find a solution to that. The only thing we found out reproducibly was that the AHEAD-value isn't properly parsed from the "Nebula3CoreII64 Reverb.xml" and being halved as you hit "save", but only if you're working on 96k. That bug's been confirmed and still in there in 1.3.486, but ultimately it didn't cause the sound difference.

Frustration and finished projects finally made me reinstall my entire system yesterday night: Fresh Win7 64, Reaper 64, Nebula 1.3.486 x64 Reverb (not using the regular dll at all), stock configuration xml. Fired it up (with R2R, AlexB CLC & MBC etc.) - sounded like crap, just like any regular algorithmic plug out there.
After many tryouts I found the following behaviour:

On the KERN page the Kernels default value is "0 (Max)", however, it sounds like "1 Clean". If you turn up that particular value to "10 (9th)", the sun is rising. It's all there, expensive sound, sonic bliss.
Save the project, reopen DAW, again crap-sound.
I can't find a way to actually make nebula use all kernels (11 in some cases) !

Anyone able to reproduce that ?
Good example to try it is the VNXT EMT140 demo - biiig difference with less kernels.
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby giancarlo » Thu May 05, 2011 4:32 pm

can you test the 32 bits version too? and can you check in vst analyzer if that kernels are really missing? btw check server version too if you need to run a 32 bits client for vstanalyzer
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu May 05, 2011 7:15 pm

Dang! You finally nailed it Fuseburn! I couldn't see/hear the problem because I've always used my own custom xml files for Nebula (even the server).

But now you've pointed this out I took a look at Nebula's installer xml files (setup versions .460 and .451) and they have:

<HDIM> 10 </HDIM>
<HDIMMAX> 10 </HDIMMAX>

which means Nebula should be able to load all available kernels properly when you do a fresh install (it shouldn't be a problem with every upgrade in this case because they don't change/overwrite your xml files).

Now, upgrade versions .486 for Nebula Server have:

<HDIM> 5 </HDIM>

in its "NebulaServerWin64.xml" file which means Nebula will only load 5 Kernels when running in the server (yes, the server upgrades DO overwrite your xml file: not good). That's a problem and should be changed back to 10.

Maybe, in your case, somehow, you managed to change your xml files settings and modified the max kernels amount (HDIM). Anyways, just go to MAST page and change KERNELS to "10 (9th harm)", click on SAVE and reload Nebula. That should change your defaults and from now on Nebula should be able to load all available kernels.
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 7:37 pm

Good catch fuseburn (and good ears!) I just updated the 32bit plugin version and the default was also 5 kernels.
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby ngarjuna » Thu May 05, 2011 7:49 pm

I have updated both of my machines to .486 and neither one of them had the HDIM or HDIMAX reset (both 10), this is the 32bit install (one Windows 7, one Windows XP). I wonder what the difference is...?

ETA: No server implementations on either machine, maybe that's a difference?
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu May 05, 2011 8:03 pm

ngarjuna wrote:I have updated both of my machines to .486 and neither one of them had the HDIM or HDIMAX reset (both 10), this is the 32bit install (one Windows 7, one Windows XP). I wonder what the difference is...?

ETA: No server implementations on either machine, maybe that's a difference?


Yes, in your case you're just upgrading Nebula3 Pro which doesn't overwrite your xml files. The problem happens with Nebula Server upgrades (or maybe, like in fuseburn's case, a wrong setting).
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby fuseburn » Thu May 05, 2011 8:14 pm

First: I'm not using any server. My HDIM values are and were always at 10, from the beginning. So the config values should be alright.

However I am dissatisfied with how it sounds, even though it seems to be working alright. I prepared a set of audio samples to show what I'm talking about:

- 1. Drumloop dry
Loop dry.wav
Loop dry
(5.36 MiB) Downloaded 110 times

- 2. Drumloop through VNXT Plate, simply inserted, turned down the dry fader in the program to just hear the reverb tail.
Loop VNXT Plate.wav
Loop VNXT Plate
(5.36 MiB) Downloaded 110 times

- 3. Drumloop through VNXT Plate after I moved the max kernels fader on the KERN page up to 10 and back to 0 again. Just move that fader and listen
Loop VNXT Plate after having moved the max kernels fader up and down again.wav
Loop VNXT Plate after having moved the max kernels fader up and down again
(5.36 MiB) Downloaded 113 times


I want nebula always to sound like 3, and I think you'll agree with me :D. That's the nebula Mojo.
However: Once I touch anything (bypass nebula, change plugin order, bring it offline and online again etc.) it sounds like 2 again. Obviously, whenever I load a project, all Nebulas sound like 2, average, digital haze, lifeless, no depth.

Anyone able to confirm that ?
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 9:37 pm

I rendered your dry track and it sounds exactly like your third sample. Nebula 32bit+ Server 64bit (latest version). Do you get strange results with the 32bit version too?
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby Mercado_Negro » Fri May 06, 2011 12:54 am

@fuseburn

I just inserted the 2secs EMT140VNXT program in a track with the dry loop, turned down the dry slider to -192dB but the sound is louder than your examples 2 and 3.

Did you lower the item volume or turned nebula's input down or turned nebula's input down or dragged your track volume fader down?

I just want to create an identical scenario to avoid side effects.

P:S If you have a REAPER project, bring it on! :) No media needed....
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
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Re: Fresh 1.3.486 N3 Pro x64 doesn't initialize all kernels

Postby Mimi » Fri May 06, 2011 1:51 am

Hi fuseburn@
Hi Mercado_Negro@
I felt a difference described by the two of you... And modified just <HDIM> </HDIM>
<HDIMMAX> </HDIMMAX>
More did not put the number 10...replace the numbers for 20 and save fileXML.
<HDIM> 20</HDIM>
<HDIMMAX> 20</HDIMMAX>
my sound has improved a lot...get tested...
A Hug for all...
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