Login

Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby giancarlo » Thu May 05, 2011 11:31 am

yr wrote:Thanks Giancarlo- just tested it and everything is working well with the 64bit version. I leave the Nebula metering at default and use an external VU meter.


this is PLAIN WRONG ahahahahahah :) :)
you should use the same meter system used for kernel switching!!!!!
Even if nebula meter sytem (rms mode) is NOT correct, you should trust IT! because this is what's used by the engine! For this reason I debugged it ADDING (in order to keep backward compatibility) new modes. So you could use also OTHER tools for checking levels because they'll speak the same language (they WILL = FUTURE)
User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
 
Posts: 9173
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 11:36 am

Wow thanks for the clarification. I'm sure many have been using Nebula in the wrong way then. I believe what I just described is even recommended in the AlexB operating manuals. Very good we've been having this little discussion then -the point was how to use gain staging properly in Nebula...
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby sfunk » Thu May 05, 2011 11:44 am

right in the light of the last 2 posts i have to admit i am confused now. For example Assuming we use the Nebula meters (is it now 17 rms thats recommended) what should the meter be showing to equate to 0vu in one of Alexs consoles?
sfunk
Member
Member
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 12:27 pm

Since Alex used -18=0VU for calibration, the RMS (AES-17) should have the same value for unity gain (-18dB). In practical terms you will not be using very different levels then you used to, but realizing that the kernel switch is dependent on the internal metering, it is better to use Nebula for visual feedback. Now we need someone with knowledge and talent to re-work the meters and gui...
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby ngarjuna » Thu May 05, 2011 12:43 pm

giancarlo wrote:this is PLAIN WRONG ahahahahahah :) :)
you should use the same meter system used for kernel switching!!!!!
Even if nebula meter sytem (rms mode) is NOT correct, you should trust IT! because this is what's used by the engine! For this reason I debugged it ADDING (in order to keep backward compatibility) new modes. So you could use also OTHER tools for checking levels because they'll speak the same language (they WILL = FUTURE)

I am a little puzzled by this.

If I use my VU meter to get a track properly staged (let's say hypothetically I end up with peaks around -6dBFS) or I use Nebula's meter to get a track properly staged (which would still amount to peaks around -6dBFS), I still have the exact same digital gain structure when I hit the Nebula input. So what's the difference? Why is the first way wrong? The only way I can imagine is if Nebula's meters are indeed known to be significantly different than other third party meters; but that shouldn't be the case, should it? Or am I forgetting something simple?

Also, yr is correct, AlexB's manuals do indeed suggest using an external 3rd party meter (there's a link to the PSP Vintage Meter).

Now we need someone with knowledge and talent to re-work the meters and gui...

+1000
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 1:09 pm

Hi ngarjuna. I just did a small test myself working on a classical mix I made yesterday. There are small differences between what Nebula reports and the VU meters say partly because they are reacting at different speeds (I don't know what is the "window" size used for the RMS calculations-100ms?). In my case I ended-up with tracks that were slightly louder then before (about 1dB).

I think I need to get my eyes checked though, I can barely see the numbers in Nebula...
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby ngarjuna » Thu May 05, 2011 1:15 pm

yr wrote:Hi ngarjuna. I just did a small test myself working on a classical mix I made yesterday. There are small differences between what Nebula reports and the VU meters say partly because they are reacting at different speeds (I don't know what is the "window" size used for the RMS calculations-100ms?). In my case I ended-up with tracks that were slightly louder then before (about 1dB).

I think I need to get my eyes checked though, I can barely see the numbers in Nebula...

Interesting. I've never really tested or compared the Nebula meters (since I haven't been using them) but I can see how different RMS size would make a significant difference. But assuming we had details about the averaging method being used, we should be able to set external metering up to work identically to the internal meters, right? Although I think Giancarlo is saying that's not correct maybe...
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 2:09 pm

Giancarlo- is it possible to implement a new "meter" page in the Nebula interface, which when pressed will display the input/output levels on the complete interface window? it will be great to have that while we wait for a meter/gui makeover...
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby giancarlo » Thu May 05, 2011 2:39 pm

what?
User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
 
Posts: 9173
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Gain Staging AlexB and R2R

Postby yr » Thu May 05, 2011 2:46 pm

Big (bigger) display of the RMS input/output levels in a separate page of the interface...
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

PreviousNext

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests