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R2R question, opinions

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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby Yllet » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:09 pm

Dogbite wrote:Just to be double double clear then... :-)

In a scenario where I wanted to process my audio files offline using both R2R tape and then an AlexB console program, to get the best results I should:

Normalize the files to 0db first and nebulize them with R2R to get the best results from the tape program.

THEN use NRGUI with the -18db processing gain switch to nebulize the files again with AlexB's console program?

So both libraries are then being fed audio at their optimum level?

H :?:


No, no and no! Never normalize audio files as it lowers the original sound quality.

/Jon
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby Dogbite » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:31 pm

Ah..damn!

I thought I was being clever.

:(
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby yr » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:22 pm

Some R2R presets will actually go above 0dBFS if you feed them a normalized signal (so not advisable). If you are working with 32bit (float) files, normalizing in itself will not effect the quality of the audio.
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:34 pm

How come Normalize changes the quality of your audio when the only thing it does is to take your loudest peak to a determined gain (mostly unity gain)? It increases the noise floor, yeah but that's not a 'damage'. I don't use Normalize because I don't need it but most people think it is a bad thing when it is just another processes which in most cases is not destructive inside applications. By the way, when you increase your Nebula input you're doing exactly the same thing.
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby enriquesilveti » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:17 am

Peak normalize into a 32/64 bits float host will not lower the quality of you audio files, you rise the peak level to the normalize value and the noise too. If you record at the correct level 24 bits AD converter > 0 dBVU = -18 dBFS you should have a -20/-18 dBFS RMS audio files with peaks at -6 to -15 dBFS.

If I need to normalize I use RMS normalization due peak normalization is just a fader level gain, if you use a 24/48 fixed point host, normalize will introduce dither like every other process done under fixed point, so you can consider dither = lower the quality of you audio files while Avid (and others) consider dither = more precision (almost more precision than a 32/64 bits float audio file)
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby Dogbite » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:15 pm

Doh!

This might be all irrelevant - I've just realised that -18dbfs and 0db may well be the same thing.....
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby ngarjuna » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:21 pm

Dogbite wrote:Doh!

This might be all irrelevant - I've just realised that -18dbfs and 0db may well be the same thing.....


Correct.
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby odd » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:12 am

One more time for my distraught mind: it's okay to feed the R2R programs with a signal peaking just below 0db? I have all my DAW signal chains set up to 0db peak before fader so that would be a relief.

But this is not advisable for the AlexB console programs, correct? And the -18db they need refers to RMS not peak? Can I adjust this from within the program, no need for a trim plug first?
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby yr » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:41 am

Depending on the source, some R2R presets will generate a signal higher the 0dBFS when fed with sound that peaks close to 0 dB. I just tried it with a normalized drum track in combination with the Studer -9 -15a and some peaks were as high as 0.9dB. Studer 0 15a produced peaks reaching 1.9dB. If you don't want to change too much about the way you are working, you can simply open your favorite R2R presets, test them to see how they react to high levels and then lower the input slider appropriately and save the preset.

You don't need a trim plugin before the console, you can simply use the input gain slider.
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Re: R2R question, opinions

Postby odd » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:45 am

Excellent, thanks.
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