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"COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby highvoltage » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:05 pm

This is my favourite eq right now.

My only concern is, and it is with all nebula eq's that i really hate the interpolation errors.

If i had to choose i would go with stepped controls every single time. With this cooltec program, most of the combo programs have that high-end roll off error due to errors of interpolation on intermediate settings.

For example the Clean HLBCC program, if i set it to boost 20HZ and 10Khz, i have to boost 4dB before the interpolation error goes away, and it actually boosts, and not acts as a low pass...

Image

Its even worse with the lowboost+cut program. you never know when you will hit a wrong spot. In fact the chance youre hitting a sweet spot is very very slim.

Image

So Michael if youre reading, this, i don't know if its possible, or how much time it takes, but i would REALLY appreciate a non-interpolated version. I don't care if it has crude steps, but i don't want to use a low pass filter, when this program is all about the top end shine.
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby mathias » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:42 pm

i already mentioned this to him for another eq (115hd).
these deformations are really bad for such great programs. maybe you can email him directly and remember him of this issue? i vote for stepped versions too !!!
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby scooter » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:41 am

Just give it a little 200hz bump buddy! ;) kidding

highvoltage wrote:This is my favourite eq right now.

My only concern is, and it is with all nebula eq's that i really hate the interpolation errors.

If i had to choose i would go with stepped controls every single time. With this cooltec program, most of the combo programs have that high-end roll off error due to errors of interpolation on intermediate settings.

For example the Clean HLBCC program, if i set it to boost 20HZ and 10Khz, i have to boost 4dB before the interpolation error goes away, and it actually boosts, and not acts as a low pass...

Image

Its even worse with the lowboost+cut program. you never know when you will hit a wrong spot. In fact the chance youre hitting a sweet spot is very very slim.

Image

So Michael if youre reading, this, i don't know if its possible, or how much time it takes, but i would REALLY appreciate a non-interpolated version. I don't care if it has crude steps, but i don't want to use a low pass filter, when this program is all about the top end shine.
-Scott
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby cdsoundmaster » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:55 am

Hi, High :-)

First of all, you are asking for a non-interpolated version- you already have every single setting in a fixed gain, fixed frequency version in the Cooltec collection. Every single boost and cut and gain change is included in the collection already. The HLBC/C are added extras in addition.

Second, what you are talking about is not interpolation. HLBC/C provides simultaneous boosting and cutting of any two frequencies at the same time, for all frequencies that have both boost and cut. This is a variation program that is allowing you to combine the unusual combination of frequencies in a multi-pattern program. All Pultecs present different curves when more than one action is performed at the same time. There is nothing like a low pass occurring in the program at all. The Pultec, set completely flat, has a natural slope of less than -1dB across the entire spectrum down to 20Hz, and above 20kHz, starting at around 15kHz it has a rounded slope/curve that bends ever so slightly the more it interacts with the other frequencies. This wide slope in the extreme highs is part of what makes the wide high boost sound so gorgeous on this eq, because it acts almost like an extremely wide bell instead of a shelf.

The LBC is a completely different kind of program. You cannot compare the response of the boost/cut program to the HLBC/C. You have every setting already in its own un-interpolated grouping. But, this is the famous non-linear response of this eq when simultaneously boosting and cutting. The trouble you are mentioning is not a misreading- it is exactly what the eq is supposed to be doing. The boost and cut simultaneous filters are different shapes, and they bend the shape of the spectrum in an extreme manner that sounds unlike anything else. It goes back to the original design. They designed the passive circuits to intentionally boost with a different shape than cut. This was originally for telephone circuits of all things, but they found it useful for live programming to use the wide shelf for brightening spectrum-limited on-air programming and honing in on mid's for dialogue. It just so happens that mis-using both boost and cut at the same time became a favored trick for music producers. That is why it got incorporated to an extreme in 'massive' versions of the later inspired, but different purple designs :-) If you want more linear, less interactive, do not use the combined programs. What I did was to combine this process into a single move to make it easy to perform the classic Pultec Boost/Cut all at once. It makes it instant and easy to do. But, you can perform a similar action with different flexibility if desired, but using two separate single filter instances, and it will act slightly different than what you have here, because the actual device changes slightly if multiple actions are performed. Hence, I wanted to be sure every nuance existed, and in doing so, in a way that is maybe even easier than the hardware. Again, this is not due to interpolation behavior. Everything regarding interpolation was tested to great lengths, and all settings are level-matched and tested for rate conversion.

highvoltage wrote:This is my favourite eq right now.

My only concern is, and it is with all nebula eq's that i really hate the interpolation errors.

If i had to choose i would go with stepped controls every single time. With this cooltec program, most of the combo programs have that high-end roll off error due to errors of interpolation on intermediate settings.

For example the Clean HLBCC program, if i set it to boost 20HZ and 10Khz, i have to boost 4dB before the interpolation error goes away, and it actually boosts, and not acts as a low pass...

Image

Its even worse with the lowboost+cut program. you never know when you will hit a wrong spot. In fact the chance youre hitting a sweet spot is very very slim.

Image

So Michael if youre reading, this, i don't know if its possible, or how much time it takes, but i would REALLY appreciate a non-interpolated version. I don't care if it has crude steps, but i don't want to use a low pass filter, when this program is all about the top end shine.
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby highvoltage » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:38 pm

I never used a real pultec, but im pretty sure im right on this one. This issue has already been confirmed by (i think Niclas) from Analoginthebox.

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p4544

It's there in quite a lot of programs, even in the roomhunters reverb, where they too confirmed this is an issue with interpolation, and planned to release stepped programs.

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p8432

Did you check my images in full size? Im talking about a steep lowpass, and it only occurs inbetween certain settings. for example on 0 boost its flat, then i raise it to 1-2, and suddenly the lowcut gets even bigger, then at 3 it starts to go back to flat, and at 4 its flat again, and so on. I HIGHLY doubt that this is a correct behaviour cause its not a 1-2 db roll off, im talking about a huge cut.

And having tried 2 other pultec emulations (which ofcourse not sampled) they never introduced this cut.

And again, this is affecting other nebula programs not just this.
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby cdsoundmaster » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:24 pm

Hi again,

I do apologize. No, I did not see the full size image.
You are right, those specific things you posted are interpolation. They cannot be directly compared to other types of programs because interpolation is specific to the type of moves it is making; meaning changes in interpol-frequencies are different than those in gain, those in dynamic or effect change, etc.

Yes, I am very much aware of the things related to interpolation and they have improved a great deal.

In this particular instance, I had recommended only using the interpolated multi's in 96kHz mode, which is the standard assumed for the collection. All fixed setting programs will convert correctly. But, the moves you are talking about exist when converted to lower rates. I felt the programs were important and valuable enough to include in the collection, so they are there to be used, but yes they do have the interpol at lower rates and I apologize for not seeing what you were talking about in the posted image without opening it to full size.

Please use these and any of the programs in 96kHz to take full advantage of the combo's included. I really don't think that there would be usable value in a non-interpolated version, considering that at 96kHz, you would get the exact same response, and the result would be that even a powerful computer could maybe open a single instance. It would be a gigantic clumsy program. If you want the same effect at 44.1 or 48, please just gang up a clean program with a harmonic program and you have all options with an almost perfect linearity, and it will only add the harmonics that are accurate to the hardware.

Again, sorry for the confusion in viewing the graph. I think you will find it quick and easy to load two instance for flexibility at a lower rate if you want to replicate the same HLBC/C effect.

highvoltage wrote:I never used a real pultec, but im pretty sure im right on this one. This issue has already been confirmed by (i think Niclas) from Analoginthebox.

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p4544

It's there in quite a lot of programs, even in the roomhunters reverb, where they too confirmed this is an issue with interpolation, and planned to release stepped programs.

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p8432

Did you check my images in full size? Im talking about a steep lowpass, and it only occurs inbetween certain settings. for example on 0 boost its flat, then i raise it to 1-2, and suddenly the lowcut gets even bigger, then at 3 it starts to go back to flat, and at 4 its flat again, and so on. I HIGHLY doubt that this is a correct behaviour cause its not a 1-2 db roll off, im talking about a huge cut.

And having tried 2 other pultec emulations (which ofcourse not sampled) they never introduced this cut.

And again, this is affecting other nebula programs not just this.
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby highvoltage » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:53 am

AH yes i get it now, i checked them in 96khz, and a little roll off is still there but it doesnt really matter cause its above the nyquist freq. So that high end kinda folds/echoes back to converted programs... yet another problem with the SRC.
I remember this same issue with your r2r programs, and then it got solved somehow by Gian.

Sure i can use multiple instances, but it would have been really great to have stepped programs as an option for those who work at lower sample rates.

Now i cant really use one of the best programs, the lowend boost + cut, which is the most characteristic function of this device, cause it kills my top end on every second setting.
I dont know if its possible to make a stepped program for just that one...
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Re: "COOLTEC EQP-1A3S" Now Available !!!

Postby Raynorshyn » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:46 pm

highvoltage wrote:Sure i can use multiple instances, but it would have been really great to have stepped programs as an option for those who work at lower sample rates.

Now i cant really use one of the best programs, the lowend boost + cut, which is the most characteristic function of this device, cause it kills my top end on every second setting.
I dont know if its possible to make a stepped program for just that one...


+1
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