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Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby Bloatfield » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:01 am

Thank you for your effort in trying to explain - much appreciated!

But why then is it not possible to capture an effect such as Waves Maxxbass that changes the frequencies to fool the ear?

/C
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby cehas » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:59 pm

(My first post here, what's up peeps? :D )

Thanks biomuse, that was highly informative..it's a real shame that Neb can't handle fast compression, mainly because you get some really cool, RARE units and they sound nothing like your usual VST plugin.

Also, I don't know if you have noticed, but apparently -12db digital = 0db in Nebula..
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby Bloatfield » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:05 pm

I know that I am mixing eggs with oranges now - bot the old F*******e Liquidmix units - how is it possible that they could handle compression well - and Nebula not?

/C
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby enriquesilveti » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:04 pm

But all that is again besides my question. How can I know what effects are possible to capture with Nebula?


Please see NAT session templates.

I am trying to understand what is possible with Nebula. Why can you make a chorus effect but not a pitch stopper? Why can you capture distortion from a preamp but not from a guitar pedal? Why can some developers create good compression - while the general opinion is that Nebula is not good for compression.


NAT can samples different types of models, dynamics, reverbs, time variants, compression, etc. A guitar pedal need a lot of kernels but the upper noes are near the noise level and corrupt the sample session. We will try to get better approach about that topic ASAP.

Please read this topic: http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... =viewtopic, you can consider like an untidy Nebula3PRO/Server manual

I know that I am mixing eggs with oranges now - bot the old F*******e Liquidmix units - how is it possible that they could handle compression well - and Nebula not?


Complete different approach they are not sampling the attack and release curves, they measure it and replay by a table.
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby TranscendingMusic » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:47 pm

Bloatfield wrote:Thank you for your effort in trying to explain - much appreciated!

But why then is it not possible to capture an effect such as Waves Maxxbass that changes the frequencies to fool the ear?

/C


Check out Behemoth! 8-)
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby yr » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:19 am

Bloatfield wrote:Thank you for your effort in trying to explain - much appreciated!

But why then is it not possible to capture an effect such as Waves Maxxbass that changes the frequencies to fool the ear?

/C


- you can (at least without the compression element). I've made several versions, some in combination with other plugins/nebula presets, and they sound very good.
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby Bloatfield » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:22 am

yr wrote:
Bloatfield wrote:Thank you for your effort in trying to explain - much appreciated!

But why then is it not possible to capture an effect such as Waves Maxxbass that changes the frequencies to fool the ear?

/C


- you can (at least without the compression element). I've made several versions, some in combination with other plugins/nebula presets, and they sound very good.


Really?! But I read in another thread that you couldn't capture Maxxbass. It was actually Giancarlo who said so.

/C
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby biomuse » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:52 pm

My guess is that you can't formally capture in Nebula what MaxxBass does because MaxxBass synthesizes genuinely new harmonics algorithmically from the fundamental, which is not something Nebula is capable of.

I also would guess that the reason that TM, Yuval etc. have been able to make Nebula patches that have a bass-enhancing effect is because most bass sounds in the real world already have a lot of low-midrange frequency content which Nebula can detect and modify - in other words, Nebula can harmonically rebalance bass sources, but not synthesize harmonics that are entirely absent to begin with.

Correspondingly, I presume that if you fed a pure 80Hz sine wave into MaxxBass, you would see the artificial harmonic ladder it synthesizes in its output, whereas you would see little to no additional harmonics coming out of Nebula, and definitely not a ladder calculated to psychoacoustically replace the fundamental.

Practically, the further away you get from using pure sinewave bass sounds, the less it should matter. There's a reason the Nebula patches work, which is that most people aren't using pure synthetic fundamentals as their bass instruments.
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Re: Exactly what is possible with Neb3 and what is not?

Postby yr » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:46 am

I should have said: you can partly capture it with Nebula. Here are some pics to help clarify:

sine tone:
sine.PNG
sine.PNG (41.31 KiB) Viewed 719 times


algo:
algo.PNG
algo.PNG (34.48 KiB) Viewed 719 times


Nebula:
Nebula.PNG
Nebula.PNG (32.93 KiB) Viewed 719 times

What I've noticed is, that it is possible to capture more harmonic saturation (so you get an harmonic order more similar to the algo plugin) but the frequency response of the preset becomes strange..
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