Login

Alex: rendering Nebula

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby vicnestE » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:41 pm

AlexB wrote:Mmmhhh... I hear this degradation by cumulative digital processing due to quantization errors + cumulative VST dithering.. Maybe I'm BatMan :mrgreen:
(oh yes, BatMan was my callsign in the Citizen Band some years ago) :D

Dear Bruce:
If the DAW's signal path is 64bit and the VSTPlugins work in 64bit, theoretically speaking, is the signal path clean until the final mixdown with some bit truncation to 32bit or 24bit?

Thanks for replying.

EDIT: Delete parts about nebula render which does null everytime except sometimes the start portions show differences.
User avatar
vicnestE
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 740
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:11 am

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby greekpeet » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:55 pm

Wow, how are you guys getting 50 plus instances of Nebula???

I'm running dual, dual Core Xeon 2.66s in my first generation Mac Pro with 6 GB of ram and I'm barely able to get 6 or 7 instances at a time running at 96khz.

The CDsoundermaster N**e eq and Alex B stuff are cray at 70% per processor core. Luckally ghost mode makes these usable.

Have to work on one channel at a time @ 96khz. 441 I can work on three at a time.

Is my processor THAT slow compared to the new i7s?
greekpeet
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:28 pm

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby greekpeet » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:57 pm

vicnestE wrote:
AlexB wrote:Mmmhhh... I hear this degradation by cumulative digital processing due to quantization errors + cumulative VST dithering.. Maybe I'm BatMan :mrgreen:
(oh yes, BatMan was my callsign in the Citizen Band some years ago) :D

Dear Bruce:
If the DAW's signal path is 64bit and the VSTPlugins work in 64bit, theoretically speaking, is the signal path clean until the final mixdown with some bit truncation to 32bit or 24bit?

Thanks for replying.

EDIT: Delete parts about nebula render which does null everytime except sometimes the start portions show differences.


I'd like to know if truncation is REALLY being heard in these kinds of cases. Truncation at 24 bits?

We all know about for 16 bit audio...
greekpeet
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:28 pm

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby hive » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:18 pm

ok, just done more render tests:

#1 - Logic 24bit realtime bounce

#2 - Logic 24bit realtime bounce with 24bit TPDF dither plugin at the end of the plugin chain

#3 - Logic 24bit internal recording via bus

#4 - Logic 24bit internal recording via bus with 24bit TPDF dither plugin at the end of the plugin chain


the results are that #4 is almost identical to the live track. I couldn't pass a blind test on this one...so yay.

when listening, I'm concentrating on the snap of the snare and the punch of the kick. the differences between all the files come down to transient dynamics in the end. for reasons that are beyond my understanding, the dither seems to make the transients sound like the live file while the non-dithered one sounds flatter. :?:
hive
User Level IV
User Level IV
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby Mercado_Negro » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:40 pm

vicnestE wrote:If the DAW's signal path is 64bit and the VSTPlugins work in 64bit, theoretically speaking, is the signal path clean until the final mixdown with some bit truncation to 32bit or 24bit?


There is no need for dither and/or noise shaping when rendering to 32FP, it is just necessary for 24bits, 16bits, etc...

In REAPER the whole signal path (while using plug-ins with a 64-bits signal path) is completely clean, if someone claims can hear a difference under these circumstances is lying :D

Cheers
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby AlexB » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:19 am

I work in Nuendo at 96/32bit always. ALL plugins have a dither in the output path, you can see it with an analyzer. Maybe my brain is broken but I still hear these bad things : dithering, aliasing and quantization errors which happens always when the daw make an operation. I hate all plugins... My tolerance now is only for Nebula :mrgreen: Damn ba(t)d brain ! :twisted:
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
Facebook
WebSite
User avatar
AlexB
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: NW Italy

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby hive » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:46 am

AlexB wrote:I work in Nuendo at 96/32bit always. ALL plugins have a dither in the output path, you can see it with an analyzer. Maybe my brain is broken but I still hear these bad things : dithering, aliasing and quantization errors which happens always when the daw make an operation. I hate all plugins... My tolerance now is only for Nebula :mrgreen: Damn ba(t)d brain ! :twisted:


this.
hive
User Level IV
User Level IV
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby Mercado_Negro » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:52 am

Sorry Alex but that's incorrect my friend :)

If plug-ins had a dither in their output imagine the amount of noise we had in our projects. What you're probably hearing here is the lack of oversampling and/or plug-ins' 64-bits signal path that's truncated if your DAW runs with a 32bits engine, like Nuendo.

Try a 64-bits DAW like REAPER or SONAR. This is a whole different story in processing. I'm pretty sure you won't hear the same in these DAWs :)

Cheers.
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby hive » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:01 am

AlexB wrote:Maybe my brain is broken but I still hear these bad things : dithering, aliasing and quantization errors which happens always when the daw make an operation. I hate all plugins... My tolerance now is only for Nebula :mrgreen: Damn ba(t)d brain ! :twisted:


ok that. :D
hive
User Level IV
User Level IV
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Alex: rendering Nebula

Postby scooter » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:19 am

Perhaps it's not bit truncation, but the down sampling you hear
-Scott
User avatar
scooter
Member
Member
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:24 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

PreviousNext

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests