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Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby seeing sounds » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:46 am

Does this compress well?

I only use Cupwise for compression.. is the CDSM CL1B as good at compression as Cupwise's Slick 9k? What about AlexB's CL1B?

Which one is better?
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby richie43 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:32 am

seeing sounds wrote:Does this compress well?

I only use Cupwise for compression.. is the CDSM CL1B as good at compression as Cupwise's Slick 9k? What about AlexB's CL1B?

Which one is better?


"Better"? Ha!
What is the best color? What chord sounds best on a piano?

lol
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby TranscendingMusic » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:39 am

richie43 wrote:
seeing sounds wrote:Does this compress well?

I only use Cupwise for compression.. is the CDSM CL1B as good at compression as Cupwise's Slick 9k? What about AlexB's CL1B?

Which one is better?


"Better"? Ha!
What is the best color? What chord sounds best on a piano?

lol


all colors, all chords. I want them all 8-)
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby richie43 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:45 am

TranscendingMusic wrote:all colors, all chords. I want them all 8-)

That's exactly what I was alluding to...... :mrgreen:
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby seeing sounds » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:47 am

Which one sounds and acts most similar to the hardware they're sampled from = better

If one of them compresses and the other one doesn't then one is better because their purpose is to compress. No need to be a smart aleck here.
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby richie43 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:23 am

seeing sounds wrote:Which one sounds and acts most similar to the hardware they're sampled from = better

If one of them compresses and the other one doesn't then one is better because their purpose is to compress. No need to be a smart aleck here.

Not being a smart aleck, they all compress well, and all sound great. I was being serious, they are just different flavors, just like hardware.
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby seeing sounds » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:59 am

True, well the reason I was asking is because I know nebula had some problems with compression in the past and I don't know if these libraries are updated or new enough to take advantage of what nebula can do now.
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby richie43 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:37 am

seeing sounds wrote:True, well the reason I was asking is because I know nebula had some problems with compression in the past and I don't know if these libraries are updated or new enough to take advantage of what nebula can do now.

Alex's CL1B is from the "old" technology, I suppose. But some of the developers still made amazing compressors anyway. That one does compress and it sounds great. The CDSM version is a monster and is very different in use than any other. That too was released before the current engine, but Michael (dev at CDSM) has it set up as multiple presets that are pre-set for specific parameters with less adjustments possible, so each are optimized for the settings with some wiggle room. That one also compresses quite well, I use it quite a bit.
You have to remember though that with using Nebula, a compressor preset or library for this example, is actually NOT just about a compressor compressing. CDSM and Henry Olonga both entire libraries dedicated to the harmonic content of a hardware piece, and these are awesome paired up with more libraries or even your favorite "algo" plugin that may "behave" more how you like. best of all worlds! So in regards to a compressor library sounding great and maybe not compressing exactly like the hardware...it's still a tonally useful and awesome thing to use. Much of Nebula, in my opinion and from my own personal discoveries from using it, is about the tonal imprint a prest brings more than any behavior. It's easy to make a signal behave in certain ways, but it is more difficult to give it a "vibe" or "mojo". Difficult until nebula gets involved.
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby RJHollins » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:07 am

Hi seeing sounds,

To possibly help, you've asked only basic questions about Nebula compression.

Maybe you can expand upon what you are looking for in a type of compression, what audio sources you're dealing with.

This might help guide the conversation to your interest.
8-)
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Re: Denmark Blue CL1B Compressor Now Released from CDS !!!

Postby cdsoundmaster » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:48 am

Hi seeing sounds-

Thank you for asking the question!
I will give you the answer as it pertains to the compressors I create and a little general info. on the technology.

I will try to give the summarized version, because there is a LOT in the detailed version, so here it goes :-)

My Denmark Blue and 160A are both program libraries that will also be acquas I release.
They both represent the hardware to a level of accuracy that warrants releasing them as a representation of the real hardware. That is my standard for representing a hardware device. For example, with equalizers, I do multiple tests with levels inside the device and with the converters until the relationship between the analog connection in and out of the device and the response inside the signal path are all representing the best that the device has to offer. If I can tell the difference from audio samples and the recorded software result, I make adjustments until they are almost impossible to tell the difference.

With compression- there are many, many, manyyyyy timing and dynamic volume factors involved. Timing, speed, response curves, the type of algo called to replay samples, pseudo-program dependence, and a very, very, veryyyyy sensitive correlation between ratio and threshold make for a very specific window in which the sampling process can truly deliver the full experience of an analog compressor.

So, to hold a compressor to my personal standard, and have it represent the original hardware device, it must be able to come extremely close to being indistinguishable from the original. This is more complex in some ways than an eq, for example, because it is designed to do much different tasks. I want to go into a ridiculous amount of detail so I will stop myself before it gets long!

For items like THE Drum Compressor for NebPro, and Acqua releases like the Warm Tube Buss Compressor and PUNCH VCA, the goal is to use the process of recording through real hardware to create something different and better than the original. By editing the source material, making adjustments, and then making intentional edits inside the NebPro engine, it is possible to mold the character into something that you consider ideal for specific situations- like instruments (drums) or tasks (buss compression, tracking compression). In this way- NebPro has a wide range of abilities that are very flexible and in many ways hugely surpass trying to do the same with algo's, which I also have experience with, like what we have done with the VTM-M2 for tape master compression, VTMC-M2 for tube mastering compression, and a soon-coming giant sounding tube compressor designed for different tasks.

The limitations of NebPro- past and present- if the technology is attempted for certain processes and certain devices, I am sorry but it is just factual that it is not going to function like the hardware. But, if the original hardware device falls within the capabilities- and you know exactly how to tune the recording process to respond EXACTLY like the ratio and threshold of the original, then you can absolutely nail the sound of the original... with a few benefits and a few setbacks. Weighing the good and bad is also a part of my final decision in whether to try to release something that truly represents the original, or whether I am aiming to make something new an unique- even better.

The good- you can get some of the subtle and some of the really heavy compression, and since it is VVKT, you are able to gather that all-important dynamic harmonic distortion and any changes actually occurring to the spectrum as well- and I promise you are not gonna get that in any competitor's algo of a 'real' hardware device no matter what they promise.

The bad- it really is a very narrow window of what compressor traits it can really nail. A lot has been accomplished, updated, added to the engine. But, you will find that I stress some things often and I will do so even more in the future... the analog hardware, especially speaking specifically to classic, vintage, great sounding gear with personality and attitude- is the aim here. We want to grab what has been sounding great for 20-60 years in the analog world. When that sound is successful, it has absolutely no bearing on changes to the core, features, updates, engine. When the sound is nailed- that is what matters. If new features allow for new things to be captured- that may happen in the future- hats off to technology. But, if one starts with the high standard of only releasing what nails the sound to begin with- it will stand the test of time inside the computer just as the analog did in the rack... unless people lose the ability to critically listen for themselves amidst the noise of advertising and marketing. Stay true to your ears and trust things like humans that listen to things, and people that have put in the thousands of hours of recording source devices.

So, finally the end summary of the (sorta) short version - lol.

The Denmark Blue represents the CL1B but- I am calling it the Denmark Blue because it is a bit of a hybrid concept- it has everything that nails the best aspects of the original device. There are several settings that frankly- the original sounds absolutely horrible on. Fortunately- within the range of settings that I personally find completely unusable- NebPro also has a hard time representing. So, I decided to keep working with it until I pushed the limits in all directions. What I feel has resulted is a super-compressor- sort of a super duper CL1B that has everything I like about the original, with all of the amazing personality, dynamics, and harmonics, but also some added character possibilities added into the library using the brilliant changes in timing elements within the NebPro engine- some that are relatively new and others that are not- simply good science that works in analog and in digital no matter what year or what version number.

If it were nothing more than an exact replication of the hardware- it would be called the CL1B or something that represents that, and nothing else. But, Denmark Blue gives the same nod to the device, bc it truly nails the things we think of when we are using the CL1B, but in place of a few settings that are not included, are a wealth of sounds added to the range in the collection that absolutely surpass what the original is lacking. Hats off to NebPro once again- yes there are drawbacks- but not if you avoid them. But yes there are benefits- so exploit them for the advancement of sound! :-)

The 160A sounds identical to its hardware equivalent, and though it is not identical in its nostalgia to the earliest VCU- try compressing roughly the same amount in a famous software version (UAD or WAVE- take your pick) - the 160A in NebPro makes them sound incredibly fake- and I used to love the UAD... until I made the 160A- lol.

The road ahead for accuracy and compression is largely in the hands of the decision makers- what devices are attempted and what honest listening users are willing to do. But, I think it is a solid system only to focus on what can be accomplished accurately, and that is the direction mine will always deal with. Either I am working to make something original based on the recording technology, or it will harken to the original because it is possible to nail its sound. This will always come with some kind of changes or compromise, which requires the super long version explanation, but from me- it won't be the sound that is ever compromised.


seeing sounds wrote:True, well the reason I was asking is because I know nebula had some problems with compression in the past and I don't know if these libraries are updated or new enough to take advantage of what nebula can do now.
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