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Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ???

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Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ???

Postby marcpl » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:06 pm

just curious. i've noticed that some library manuals don't specify an input gain...and some libraries don't have a manual at all.

is it assumed that ALL nebula libraries adhere to a reference of -18dbfs?

thanks,
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby darkskar » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:50 pm

Waiting to know more about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcS1SNkYfXU
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby jpchartrand » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:02 pm

Some can be calibrated louder than -18 but never higher.

Meaning you could calibrate at -12 or -10 but shouldn't calibrate a -24.
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby fr3udes » Mon May 12, 2014 9:22 pm

Mostly CDSoundmaster. It requires to be around -2/0db, if i'm correct.
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby richie43 » Mon May 12, 2014 10:10 pm

fr3udes wrote:Mostly CDSoundmaster. It requires to be around -2/0db, if i'm correct.

Read the first post on this thread.....
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ebula.html
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby fr3udes » Tue May 13, 2014 12:43 am

Alright :oops:
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby richie43 » Tue May 13, 2014 1:35 am

fr3udes wrote:Alright :oops:

No worries! I had no idea about Michael's meticulous callibration until that email I quoted, and I have been emailing Michael on both "business" and personal levels for 3 years. If you read that carefully, you will understand that his libraries are basically "fail-proofed" since he has them calibrated to handle high inputs. Basically, if you clip a CDSM preset, you are most likely clipping your converters too (brilliant idea, actually). I have used older presets from other devs ( awesome devs, too, this is NOT a slam on anyone) and while I was well below the levels that my converter can take, I still clipped the preset.
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby RJHollins » Tue May 13, 2014 2:53 am

just my opinion ...

and I can understand the logic Michael has employed regarding base operating levels ... BUT :o There was a 'standard' that we used with the very introduction of digital, with its cooperation with the 'analogue' world ... and that was 0dv VU [analogue] would match -18db [digital]. [yes, we sometimes pushed up to -16dB dig]. Granted ... we are speaking 16 bit territory.

To that ... I would like to know if we can permanently change a CDS library to match what MOST everyone else is using as reference ... this including the actual levels we record at. I find this to be an inconvenience to say the least, as all my metering references to -18dBfs.

I use many CDS libraries ... the quality is not the issue ... but I would like to know if we can change the reference level [either with Neb or NAT, and re-save at the 'standard' operating level.

thanks
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby richie43 » Tue May 13, 2014 3:18 am

I hear what you are saying RJ, and I am not speaking for Michael, but I know that he is always crazy-busy and I have a few responses:
I am probably nearly the same age as you, and have the same "digital to analog" habits as you, but I actually would rather see more devs follow Michael's lead.....
The issue is not experienced engineers, the issue is the less experienced and how their own mistakes can affect sales AND affect their own quality of experience. Regardless of what other libraries are calibrated at, if they load up any preset from any dev, and it clips and sounds like crap, they most likely assume that it is the preset and library and decide to not buy from the dev anymore. With almost every CDSM library, it's nearly impossible to make it sound crappy unless you've obviously maxed out the converters (and most likely triggered some auto-mute if your DAW is even nearly as handy as Reaper....lol). You come form the depths of the analog of yesteryear, you know that no 2 pieces of hardware spec out the same, even 2 of the same model. You learn the piece and use it according to it's behavior. I have no problem with taking the few minutes to learn the basics of my new "gear" (library) after I "set it up" (install) in my studio.
Again, I have no idea if this has anything to do with Michael's true thoughts and reasoning's, so don't go after him after reading this!!
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Re: Are there any Devs or Libraries that DON'T USE -18dbfs ?

Postby RJHollins » Tue May 13, 2014 4:19 am

Hi Richie,

Well ... I'm all for 'Safety in Engineering' I suppose. :roll: I still don't like 'child-proof' caps cause I'm too old to open them :lol:

As to the variations in hardware level ... nah. it was never really an issue that caused concern.

We're talking maintaining Unity gain through the audio chain. The idea that a 'unit' could be misused intentionally or not is in the hands of the user/abuser.

As I said, I understand the logic on an 'intellectual level' ... but it doesn't fit real-world application with everything else.

Being software ... I would hope this could be modified. Even if it then comes with an 'adult supervision, R-rated' warning label. :|
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