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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby Hannes_F » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:29 pm

RJHollins wrote:
Hannes_F wrote:- It seems not possible to assign fixed midi channels to a Nebula instance. Nebula wants to return to channel 16 all the time here. Therefore I tend to set the output channel of the Bus_Router instances to 16 too.

The crux of the Nebula MIDI issue ! :twisted:

This is a highly requested change to be asked for with Nebula. The current mode is OMNI, which means, Nebula responds to every MIDI channel, at all times. This affects not only the NVC ... but any attempt via DAW, MIDI stream, what have you ... we do not have a way to 'speak' to a single Nebula directly ... we have to isolate each Nebula with a filter.


OK, by now two initial questions of mine have been answered:

1. Why is it necessary to use all those MIDItoRea and MIDI_Bus_Router inserts?
- Because it currently is not possible to assign a specific MIDI channel to a singular NEBULA instance . . . except Giancarlo has a magic xml edit in the sleeve . . . Giancarlo?

2. Why is it helpful to use Nebula Setups?
- Because this helps to only use 4 or 5 Nebula instances which will then automagically reload different programs for cut/boost, bell/shelf, colored/clean.

Here is one more question for the 'standard setup':
Could you please post the list of programs that you included in your 'Nebula Setups' setup for the Mammoth? The reason why I am asking is that the reloading of programs worked as long as I had only few of them but when I try to include them all including the filters it Nebula will only do the Init thing.

BTW I have added the Reaper midi parameter automation to the sliders and now it works - except the reload / switch function.

What I want to have is a setup that runs 100% reliable and stable in REAPER 64 and I will then upload that as FX chain here for sharing and testing.

I looked into the bidule setup but I would need to replace every device there because I am on 64 bit. I'll spare that for a next step after the 'standard' Reaper version works stable.
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby RJHollins » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:06 pm

Good morning ... still on the first few sips of coffee ... lets take a look.

1. Why is it necessary to use all those MIDItoRea and MIDI_Bus_Router inserts?
- Because it currently is not possible to assign a specific MIDI channel to a singular NEBULA instance . . . except Giancarlo has a magic xml edit in the sleeve . . . Giancarlo?

Basically true. I would add that Reaper's current design contributes to this need. A track in Reaper is 'universal' [?] - can be stereo,mono, audio, MIDI.
The one instants of MidiREAControl seems to add the MIDI intelligents. NOTE: it seems Reaper is getting a lot of MIDI attention ... maybe this will all get integrated in future versions [?!?].
As for the MIDI_Bus_Router ... we need 1 per Nebula. It grabs data off the main MIDI line, filters to a specific MidiChannel, and routes it to the BUS that NEBULA is assigned too.

2. Why is it helpful to use Nebula Setups?

I'm not quite following the reason you posted. I would say that NebulaSetUPs basically allows us to draw from a massive library and create specific Nebulas that have a user defined prest bank to select from. It is common to house a specific library [such as the Mammoth] in is own Nebula. Since the NVC is designed to work a specific library, it made sense to make it a package of one library. It also greatly improved the loading time of the chain.

If this helps understand ... the NVC uses a 'parsing' routine to read the custom XML file and 'pick off' key preset names and their PROGRAM#. From there, these preset names get grouped and sorted, then sent to specific sub-module destinations.

The specifics of the how the parsing works I determine at the time I design. This is based on the naming procedure/style that the library creator used.
Sometimes this requires several strategies to organize the presets into proper categories.

As a side though: If we mixed in other libraries ... could the NVC parsing routine get fooled ?? it's possible given the thousands of presets in the main pool.

- Because this helps to only use 4 or 5 Nebula instances which will then automagically reload different programs for cut/boost, bell/shelf, colored/clean.
This is confusing me ... maybe 2nd coffee cup will kick in ... but this leads to the next question...
Could you please post the list of programs that you included in your 'Nebula Setups'

I probably can ... but something confusing here :?
Take the MAMMOTH as example. Using NebulaSetUPs, I filter it down to show ALL the Mammoth presets available. With that, I select ALL the Mammoth presets and create a new custom Nebula. Given a identifiable name, this custom Nebula is all we need to have the Mammoth EQ. The NVC uses the custom XML file made with SetUPs, and now it knows what presets are in this Mammoth Nebula. [the NVC goes on to then write its own personal 'Configuration' file that contains all this info [and more]. From then on, the NVC AUTOLoads this file to bring in the configuration. It does NOT need to parse the setup XML file ... UNLESS the user changes the custom Nebula. If that happens, we need to teach the NVC the available Presets. So we load that SetUP XML, and the NVC will update its' Config file.

The CONFIG tab on the NVC might be a bit confusing too.

When the LOAD XML button is clicked, navigate to where the custom SetUP XML file is and load that in.
On this page is a display of 'Bank Names' and Preset numbers. These are ONLY FOR DISPLAY ... they don't control anything :o
... in fact, it is still there as my quick de-bug and verify display.

The important part is that LED next to 'Config File Loaded'. When it is lite GREEN, the NVC is working from it's special config file.

The XML data shown above could all be blank [0] or show INIT ...[remember, this is only display from the parsing routine]. The GREEN LED tells the whole story here.
The reason why I am asking is that the reloading of programs worked as long as I had only few of them but when I try to include them all including the filters it Nebula will only do the Init thing.


I'm really not following this part. sorry :oops:

If you go to the 'custom Mammoth' Nebula GUI, are you able to see and load all the presets you assigned ??
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby Hannes_F » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:31 am

RJHollins wrote:
2. Why is it helpful to use Nebula Setups?

I'm not quite following the reason you posted.


I was initially thinking: Why don't we just use one Nebula instance for each band and steer them with Midi? Then I noticed that there is the need for reloading because different programs boost and cut, and also there are variations for shelf/peak and clean/colored. So one would need like 11 instances of Nebula all loaded at a time, and even 22 if one wants them clean + colored - or one decides for reloading programs. And then this makes much sense:

As a side though: If we mixed in other libraries ... could the NVC parsing routine get fooled ?? it's possible given the thousands of presets in the main pool.


... but something confusing here :?
... Using NebulaSetUPs, I filter it down to show ALL the Mammoth presets available. With that, I select ALL the Mammoth presets and create a new custom Nebula


OK, I see I did bring this question forth in totally the wrong order. I start again:

1. I create a NebulaSetUps program called 'Mammoth_all`with all Mammoth programs as seen in screenshot. Please note that I defined one program as default (Low shell boost).

Please right-click on links, I did not want to mess up the forum format by embedding these big screenshots.

http://www.strings-on-demand.com/data/Mammoth_all.jpg

2. I load an instance of 'Mammoth_all' into Reaper and also load the `Mammoth_all.xml' into NVC.

3. I see the command 'Configuration has Changed! ReLoad XML'. Hmm ... I loaded it just seconds ago. But probably it has been re-written, so I reload it. Again the same message. I re-load and re-load. The message does not go away. The Nebula instance shows a smile filter now.

http://www.strings-on-demand.com/data/M ... loaded.jpg

4. I switch from Boost to Cut. The Nebula Instance performs a reload, however to a different Smile filter.

http://strings-on-demand.com/data/SwitchToCut.jpg

Problem description better now? Thanks.
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby RJHollins » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:47 am

Hi Hannes_F,

Thanks for the details provided.

To start, we should clarify the design of this NVC controller. It may or may not be obvious ... but let me explain.

The NVC-Mammoth can function is several different modes. Each mode will relate to the number of NEBULA instances needed.

In what is called the MINI mode ... we have 4 sub-modules plus the filters always displayed.

The 'toggle switches' at the top of each sub-module allow switching to the various functions the Mammoth can do.

Looking closer ... lets take a simple one. The LO-MID module. It has 2 functions, CUT or BOOST. When we toggle the switch we can view the specific controls and settings available. Notice that the MIDI CHANNEL on these switching modules is set to the same CHannel. [probably MidiCH #2]. This CH2 talks with the NEBULA that is also assigned to listen on CH #2.

So what we have are 2 modules [Cut & Boost] that talk to the same NEBULA.

This one example mirrors how the 'Mammoth' hardware works ... we can Boost OR Cut.

The same concept is used in each of these sub-modules.
The HI-MID [on CH3 works the same ... Boost OR cut].

When we look at the Low and High Peak/Shelf modules, we see that we have 4 choices per module.

By keeping EACH sub-module assigned to the same MIDI CH in the 'group', each of the PRESETS that we load into that section will each talk to the same Nebula instance.

In this 'base' mode we have mirror the choices the hardware provides. In doing this we have 4 Nebulas to handle each section of eq'ing ... and then a 5th Nebula to handle the FILTERS.

Always from the main GUI, I have tried to provide visual indicators of the status of each sub that is hidden in view. Fundamental access such as bypassing the EQ gains, or switching a Nebula IN/OUT of the audio chain are available from the main GUI.

... and yes... this did put a hurting on that last brain cell to try to figure out :roll: :lol:

If we're good to this point ... we can expand beyond the normal function of the hardware via Nebula :o

The KEY ... are the MIDI Channel assignments.

Each Channel needs a Nebula to link to, but the strategy used to assign these channels offer additional flexibility, and more simultaneous 'band' control if desired. This is accomplished by how the Channels are assigned [within the sub-module].

example: say you want both Cut AND Boost of the 'LO-MIDS'. Without messing up the aleady assigned midi channels. you can leave one of the modules on CH #2, and assign the alternate module to, say, CH #6 or maybe 'reserve' the channels for the LO and using CH# 9.

On the LO band ... maybe you'd like to have them in PAIRS [which would need 2 Nebulas]. Maybe have the Shelf and Bell on separate channels.

I've tried to make this a condensed and flexibile at the same time. Of course, the ultimate Mammoth is each sub-module assigned to unique channels and linked to 13 Nebulas. Just remember ... you don't need to use every modules ... but you can 8-)

OK ... sorry ... I felt I needed to get that info out there for everyone.

Now to the issue at hand.

Hannes_F ... There seems to be additional Presets showing up in the HMF PK Boost and Cut banks. Also in the HI PEAK boost and cut.
The HI Shelf boost looks correct, but not the Cut.
Also, the Filters don't seem right :?

What I mean by that ... are the total number of PRESETs that should be there in each bank.

The library I use is the original Expanded release. I'd not heard that any of the presets were changed ... nor any modifications to the names used.

Just to be sure ... confirm for me that these are indeed the 'original names' of the presets :P I have to ask, because that would be first concern.

I'm still looking over the pix you posted to gleen a clue.

I see the 'User Config File Loaded' with GREEN Led ... a good sign. But I also see the 'Configuration has changed' alert.

Now that alert can come up if you clicked in the [CC] control edit boxes. This will throw an alert that something might have changed.

It may seem confusing, but it asks to RE-LOAD the Setup XML file. The reason for this is the preset data and the [CC] data are stored together in NVC's autoload file. If you changed or clicked on the [CC] edit ... go and then Re-Load the setup XML file to update the NVC file. That should clear that alert.

See what that does ... but I'm still puzzeled with the quantity of presets in certain banks. :?

I may need you to send [email] a copy of your setup XML file to examine if something is wacked.

ok ... lots of stuff here ... let me post, and then see where we are.

Thank-you for the details you've provided, and apologies for the delay in getting running. We'll workto get this solved!

Thank-you
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby Hannes_F » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:38 am

@RJHollins
Thank you for the explanations. Until the two smilies in your last post all was understood here, then came a part that was new but pleasant :) . I will often have to use more mid bands than one while the bass range is already set, for example.

To the problem at hand:

Now that alert can come up if you clicked in the [CC] control edit boxes. This will throw an alert that something might have changed.


Nope, definetively no click on the CC edit boxes. This alert comes always. I think for finding the reason for it some sort of log or debug version would be handy.

It may seem confusing, but it asks to RE-LOAD the Setup XML file.


That is what I did then.

go and then Re-Load the setup XML file to update the NVC file. That should clear that alert.


Nope, it doesn't.
Also, what puzzles me is that if I save and reload the project I will again see the default xml file in that line.

but I'm still puzzeled with the quantity of presets in certain banks. :?


Understand now why I asked for the 'official' list of presets that you use? :mrgreen:

I may need you to send [email] a copy of your setup XML file to examine if something is wacked.


I attach it to this post. Thank you.
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby RJHollins » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:48 am

To Hannes_F,

Thank-you for posting the XML. This is very helpful, and verifies that there is an issue for me to fix.

Background ... there are 2 version of the Mammoth library in use. Mine is from the days when the actual WOOLEY roamed :o There was a subsequent release that was issued under the AUTHorization system. My contact with AITB was interrupted during their 'Dark' time. Briefly, the thinking was that preset names were the same ... it turns out that this is partially correct.

This may only be part of the solution ... but this is a major part that I can fix.

I'll get on this ASAP ... but I will need a bit of time. Fixing this is not the real issue ... I need to see if this correction can be contained within a single release. This I won't know till I test for both possible libraries.

Again my apologies and appreciation for your efforts and I appreciate your understanding.

... back to the lab ;)
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby RJHollins » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:41 am

.... and He's back :shock:

OK ... quick report [yea :lol: ]

I have corrected the NVC to work with the 'latest' Mammoth library. I have checked this with 2 different XML files created from this version.

This is a preliminary result. Even though what I now see with this parsing looks to be what is expected ... I want this tested with the actual library.

You are not alone in waiting for this solution, and I don't want to do a public release until actual test results are performed.

2nd ... I'm looking to see if these 2 Mammoth versions can utilize the same NVC. This is what I need to try and figure out.

For myself, I'll need to contact AITB and get the latest release for this and several other libraries of theirs that I purchased. You may say ... why no do before ... well ... gee, they are working fine as is :lol: [but yeah ... I should take care of this].

OK .. lots of craziness in the schedule coming ... but I also view this as high priority ... just need some testing time.

... back to the Lab ... then BED ! :o
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby Hannes_F » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:16 am

Hi RJHollins,

getting the latest releases from AITB is really easy because they have a personal customer area now and once you log in you see your bought products ready to (re-)download and (re-)license. It is what I just did before.

If you have a version for testing you could send it to me via hannes @ frischat.de
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby babiuk » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:09 pm

Sorry for being a little offtopic, but I am reading about licenses and I dont know if I must do something new for being able to try this tool. I got full settings for PoolTeQ and it seems to work, although I had no time still to use it.

Are there any licenses task I have to do?
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Re: NVC - Series - General News

Postby Hannes_F » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:28 pm

@babiuk
The license I was talking about was for the Mammoth EQ from Analog In The Box.

The PoolTeQ is an EQ from Alessandro Boschi.

RJHollins provides two surfaces, one for each.

The licenses that you'll need for a test are
- Nebula 3 or Nebula 3 Pro license
- PoolTeQ license
- Nebula Setups license

And then, if you decide to really use the RJHollins surface, a license for that, of course. So all in all there are 4 lincenses involved for regularly using the PoolTeQ with a NVC surface.

Hope that helps, Hannes
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