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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby zaminx » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:03 pm

:roll:
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby apollo soul » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:21 pm

Console emulations in general are AT BEST, the finishing 1%.

They rate a 10 on the PITA workflow scale (nebula especially).

They rate probably lower than any other programs on the "bang for the buck" scale. (noticeable audio changes)

They often do make things sound worse, so you really have to evaluate each step and make sure you're going in the direction you want.

The negative aspects accumulate over many instances just like the positive. They can wreck eq curves, and make tracks flatter and more lifeless as well.

I would highly DIScourage anyone from getting into them that's not already very comfortable with their system, signal flow, gainstaging, and (unfortunately with nebula especially) troubleshooting.

They will absolutely force you to abandon whatever workflow you have optimized.





but...

they can add just that little bit extra that most people won't consciously notice, but audiophiles obsess over.

And... they don't have to be used in an exact replica of studio signal flow. I often delete instances because I evaluate each and every instance on it's own merit. And, I sometimes tripple up (along with transformer and tape emulations) when I want something to subtly decompose.

Now, if you are disappointed in console emulations, it is quite likely your expectations were not in-line with the realities above.

I've found they did EXACTLY what I expected... and I like them for what they are... without expecting them to be something they're not.

I'd fill the arsenal with OTHER tools first, though, and I could certainly live without them if necessary.
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby RJHollins » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:31 pm

well, as for the use or not of using a console ...

Some prefer the sound of pure digital.

Back in the daze, it was not uncommon for us to bypass the console and print straight to tape. We would use external pre-amps, EQ, compressors, etc, and patch straight to the multi-trk.

Nebula brings a variety of choice. For those of us that work a wide gamut of material & styles, it is nice to have tools with dynamic character.

And with any tool, its important to learn how to use AND abuse 8-)
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby faun2500 » Mon May 02, 2011 10:37 am

Bloody hell! Some of you have some serious problems! :lol:

The consoles - I just put them on my tracks at sit back laughing...


The rest of you can continue squabbling. :roll:
Forthcoming releases on: Black Heart Label, Hyperdrive and Transfixion. http://soundcloud.com/100mg. 6 FREE Downloads on my soundcloud page. Nebula ALL over these trax!
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby ngarjuna » Mon May 02, 2011 2:43 pm

apollo soul wrote:Console emulations in general are AT BEST, the finishing 1%.

They rate a 10 on the PITA workflow scale (nebula especially).

They rate probably lower than any other programs on the "bang for the buck" scale. (noticeable audio changes)


I agree. It's a whole lot of work for what amounts to a relatively small benefit.

They often do make things sound worse, so you really have to evaluate each step and make sure you're going in the direction you want.

The negative aspects accumulate over many instances just like the positive. They can wreck eq curves, and make tracks flatter and more lifeless as well.


I think that's highly overstated. I've never had a console emulation wreck a track, if anything the usual complaint is that they are subtle to the point of being inaudible.

but...

they can add just that little bit extra that most people won't consciously notice, but audiophiles obsess over.

And... they don't have to be used in an exact replica of studio signal flow. I often delete instances because I evaluate each and every instance on it's own merit. And, I sometimes tripple up (along with transformer and tape emulations) when I want something to subtly decompose.

Now, if you are disappointed in console emulations, it is quite likely your expectations were not in-line with the realities above.

I've found they did EXACTLY what I expected... and I like them for what they are... without expecting them to be something they're not.

I'd fill the arsenal with OTHER tools first, though, and I could certainly live without them if necessary.


Definitely.

It's not a magic box where you plug your audio in and it sounds "pro". It's a starting point. For those of us who are used to having that sort of starting point (and/or purists, emulators, etc.) it saves us instances of other effects down the line.
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby apollo soul » Tue May 03, 2011 1:54 am

I don't know that they'd ever wreck a track...

It's just the basic idea that if you have a certain frequency spectrum in mind for a result, and the emulation moves you further away, then it is worse for the purposes you intended.

This is why I evaluate each instance, and often end up doing things like NOT using the console's matching returns... if there is another emulation which can bring em CLOSER to the intended spectrum.

Basically, any console that brings you an inch closer to your intended sound has made an improvement. Any console that brings you an inch further away has made things worse... still inches either way, though.

I started doing it on a lark, really, but it's interesting to chain a few instances together... maybe preamp into transformer into tube into channel, for instance...

... with an ear toward seeing how close the judicious choice of WHICH tube and channel, etc... can bring you to your desired frequency characteristics WITHOUT using any eq.

Call it personal preference, but I like the results I get working that way... though it is a bit slow. Just generally, I look at the emulation plugs on an individual basis with an ear toward what I want for the overall characteristics of that instrument. Sometimes I mix consoles for that purpose.
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby mastermat » Tue May 03, 2011 9:39 pm

RJHollins wrote:Hi mastermat,

I'm confused by your posting ...

You say you are waiting for your authorization ... how are you able to load any of the commercial libraries ???


I was just commenting on the samples that the thread starter posted beginning this thread...

meanwhile I have my authorisation..
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby mastermat » Tue May 03, 2011 9:43 pm

apollo soul wrote:Console emulations in general are AT BEST, the finishing 1%.

They rate a 10 on the PITA workflow scale (nebula especially).

They rate probably lower than any other programs on the "bang for the buck" scale. (noticeable audio changes)

They often do make things sound worse, so you really have to evaluate each step and make sure you're going in the direction you want.

The negative aspects accumulate over many instances just like the positive. They can wreck eq curves, and make tracks flatter and more lifeless as well.

I would highly DIScourage anyone from getting into them that's not already very comfortable with their system, signal flow, gainstaging, and (unfortunately with nebula especially) troubleshooting.

They will absolutely force you to abandon whatever workflow you have optimized.





but...

they can add just that little bit extra that most people won't consciously notice, but audiophiles obsess over.

And... they don't have to be used in an exact replica of studio signal flow. I often delete instances because I evaluate each and every instance on it's own merit. And, I sometimes tripple up (along with transformer and tape emulations) when I want something to subtly decompose.

Now, if you are disappointed in console emulations, it is quite likely your expectations were not in-line with the realities above.

I've found they did EXACTLY what I expected... and I like them for what they are... without expecting them to be something they're not.

I'd fill the arsenal with OTHER tools first, though, and I could certainly live without them if necessary.


great post!!! thanks for your thoughts..I agree 100% and now that I have my authorisation I certainly will try some consoles myself...any recomendations regarding that I liked the sound of the black console...
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby mastermat » Tue May 03, 2011 9:47 pm

Goldfish wrote:
mastermat wrote:Modern Black Console Pro sounded best to me....
but I wouldn´t say that any of the consoles did anything to the file that really made it sound "better"...of course they sound different from the original, but better? I know some free plugs that make subtle changes on a file which are at least as pleasant...
globe console sounded actually much worse than the original file....sorry, I know that´s all a matter of taste, but to my ears that console did something to the HF that sounded somehow "artificial" and unnatural..
that´s the opposite of what I expected........up to that point I rather think I will not purchase any console...hopefully the third party eqs I bought (analog in the box) sound better...or I will be sure I wasted money and time on the whole nebula thing, (especially the things that costs money)...actaually I liked the free nebula stuff (I think it was CM version) when I tried it at a friends place, nothing spectacular, but nice.... maybe I expect too much from the stuff you have to pay for??? hopefully not....still frustrated waiting for my authorisation...this starts to suck!!



That is simply crazy. I seriously question your experience and ability in these matters.


????? for what reason????
such a comment makes me questioning something else that I will keep politely to myself ;)
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Re: consoles...Consoles...CONSOLES

Postby cfunck » Wed May 04, 2011 1:55 am

Mastermat, I agree completely with you on the sublety of the console emulations presented in this especific thread.
I suggest you listen to Alex B newest examples, it´s a nice RnB track and each console has its own vibe. Easier to hear than this example.

Let´s just not forget that, besides the nice colors we have from these consoles, we´re still summing in the box. The real beauty is actually the interactions of the elements in the analog world and that we don´t have with nebula. I just bought a dangerous 2 bus and realized quickly how different itb is from otb. It´s possible to hear that even with cheaper gear like mackie mixers. I´m not saying better or worse, just different.

Let´s just not get too offended with another member´s opinion. Let´s not turn Nebula into a religion.
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