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Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names?

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Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names?

Postby dagovitsj » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:21 pm

Hi!
I've just purchased CLC from AlexB and have made one Nebula setup with 5k and one for 3k for the Console Buss Group. I have named them:
NS S*L 4000 Buss Group 5k.dll
NS S*L 4000 Buss Group 3k.dll

The strange thing is that when I opened Cubase, I could see that both plugins were scanned and recognized, but only the 3k-plugin is showing up inside Cubase 6.5.

I have also checked 'Plug-in information' and pressed the 'Update' and 'Update plug-in information' buttons. No progress, only the the 3k-plugin shows.

However in Reaper, both plugins show up.

Conclusion: there is something strange with how Cubase interpret the names of the plugins. If they are too similar, it simply avoids showing both.

I would like to have a logic naming system, so is there anyone who knows how I should approach this?

Thought: Perhaps I could use big letters in the 5k version to "trick" Cubase, like this?

NS S*L 4000 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll

The "problem" is that I also want to make TIMED version of the 5k, so I'm interested in how you experienced 'Nebulits' have organized/solved this?!

Best
|Win 7-64bit | Reaper 4. x64, Cubase 6.5.3., 64 & 32 bit | RAM:16 GB | CPU: Intel Core i5 760@ 2,8 GHz | Samsung SSD 830 (256 GB) | WD: Black harddisks | Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT Graphics Accelerator | Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 |Nebula 3 Pro |
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby zabukowski » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:21 am

I can reproduce this with Nuendo 6.0.6 as well. Reaper and Wavelab 8 recognize plugins without a problem.

ATM, I guess there is not much that can be done, except to find naming convention which will be properly recognized.

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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby zabukowski » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:32 am

I was experimenting a bit more:

There must be a difference in plugin names after 8th character.

Hope it helps!
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby dagovitsj » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:43 am

Right, thanks for the input, Zabukowski!
I'll experiment with that 8th character tip :D

Cheers
|Win 7-64bit | Reaper 4. x64, Cubase 6.5.3., 64 & 32 bit | RAM:16 GB | CPU: Intel Core i5 760@ 2,8 GHz | Samsung SSD 830 (256 GB) | WD: Black harddisks | Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT Graphics Accelerator | Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 |Nebula 3 Pro |
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby harmonik » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:35 pm

I posted the same Cubase issue (7.0.6, Win 7 64) in the working with nebula sub-forum (except i was just copy/pasting, not using Setups). Good detective work on the 8 characters threshold, but do you mean before 8th character? I found just appending different text to the end of long names didn't work.
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby dagovitsj » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:55 pm

@ harmonik:
- Nope, I don't think it's before the 8th character, but the 9th caracter has to be different, like this:

NS S*L 4000 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
NS S*L 4100 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll

I haven't testet this fully yet, i.e. I don't know if a space count as a character. Have to experiment more.

I have noticed though that Michaels' R2R library use very long names with '-' in them and in those names there is no "rule" about the 9th character has to be different. Strange thing with Cubase, though!

I have to test more. Will update!

But conclusion is:
I've come up with a system that I think will work, just use numbers as the 9th character, like this (here I assume that the space doesn't count as a character though):

NS S*L 4k -1 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
NS S*L 4k -2 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
NS S*L 4k -3 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
etc

I think that will work, but haven't testet it yet ;)

@ Richie: If you read this, I know that you're on Reaper and just can use the excellent search function there. But have you developed a good system for naming all your 100+ Nebula setups? Just want to know ;)

Cheers
|Win 7-64bit | Reaper 4. x64, Cubase 6.5.3., 64 & 32 bit | RAM:16 GB | CPU: Intel Core i5 760@ 2,8 GHz | Samsung SSD 830 (256 GB) | WD: Black harddisks | Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT Graphics Accelerator | Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 |Nebula 3 Pro |
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby RJHollins » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:37 pm

If this might help ....

The issue is what protocol a DAW will use to identify and load a VST. Some DAW's use the filename, while others use a unique ID number.

The name length issue come from the old DOS filename standard that used 8 characters, a '.', and then a 3 character extension.

If CUBASE is using the DOS naming, then it would probably need different characters within the first 8.
[Yes, even though Steinberg set the VST protocol back in the '80s ... they might be still using that].

Other DAW's use a unique ID number, which may not be easily mod'd by the user.

This may not of help ... but the mention of the naming used in the example R2R. These are preset patch names that load into the VST. This is a completely different area, and has nothing to do with having multiple VST recognition.

[apologies for the 1st sip of coffee explanation] :oops:
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NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby richie43 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:31 pm

dagovitsj wrote:@ harmonik:
- Nope, I don't think it's before the 8th character, but the 9th caracter has to be different, like this:

NS S*L 4000 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
NS S*L 4100 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll

I haven't testet this fully yet, i.e. I don't know if a space count as a character. Have to experiment more.

I have noticed though that Michaels' R2R library use very long names with '-' in them and in those names there is no "rule" about the 9th character has to be different. Strange thing with Cubase, though!

I have to test more. Will update!

But conclusion is:
I've come up with a system that I think will work, just use numbers as the 9th character, like this (here I assume that the space doesn't count as a character though):

NS S*L 4k -1 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
NS S*L 4k -2 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
NS S*L 4k -3 BUSS GROUP 5k.dll
etc

I think that will work, but haven't testet it yet ;)

@ Richie: If you read this, I know that you're on Reaper and just can use the excellent search function there. But have you developed a good system for naming all your 100+ Nebula setups? Just want to know ;)

Cheers

I actually make instances based on function more than by library, so my naming is quite easy...."Tapes", "Preamps", "EQ's", etc. I have some organized by developer too, but again, naming is easy.
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Re: Nebula setups - Cubase won't show almost identical names

Postby dagovitsj » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:13 pm

YES!
I finally made it work. Zabukowski was right. If the naming of two .dlls are similar the 9th character has to be different - then Cubase will show it. But, and this is important, space counts as one character. I missed that in my initial testing. Thanks to RJHollins and Richie for input!

This will work:
Console 1 S*L 4000 Input Channel Mono 5k.dll
Console 2 S*L 4000 Input Channel Stereo 5k.dll
Console 3 S*L 4000 Input Channel Mono 10k.dll

etc


Afterthought:
@ RJHollins: thanks for input and thoughts! Doesn't seem like Cubase use the DOS file name standard though, but it is strange that the 9th character has to be something different.

This may not of help ... but the mention of the naming used in the example R2R. These are preset patch names that load into the VST. This is a completely different area, and has nothing to do with having multiple VST recognition.


- Aha, I think I should have metioned that I was refering to the VST version of R2R, it has a lot of .dlls with naming like this:
R2R-OTR-15IPS-499-0DB.dll
R2R-OTR-15IPS-499-3DB.dll
R2R-OTR-15IPS-499-6DB.dll

So there is something strange about this Cubase "rule" of naming, 'cause when you use the '-' it seems to be one of the last three characters that has to be different.

Well, I reckon Michael (CDSoundMaster) knows about this, since he has used this naming scheme and probably used some time to figure out how this work in Cubase?!

Conclusion:
There are obviously two methods to name the .dlls so that they will be shown in Cubase:
1) Either use a different character (9th character)
2) Use names that are separated with '-' and let the one of the three last letters be different (se R2R libr)

Nice to know ;)
Now I have make some Nebula setups!

Cheers
|Win 7-64bit | Reaper 4. x64, Cubase 6.5.3., 64 & 32 bit | RAM:16 GB | CPU: Intel Core i5 760@ 2,8 GHz | Samsung SSD 830 (256 GB) | WD: Black harddisks | Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT Graphics Accelerator | Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 |Nebula 3 Pro |
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