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presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby swartzfeger » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:11 am

I bought CDS/Michael's T*****t
Henry's Mpassive Mojo, Chiswick Mojo, and Reverb Rocket amp
Alex's GMD

For starters, Henry's Mpassive Mojo is so good I owe him a trip to the pub (I don't drink anymore, but I'm sure I can get some proper tea over there vs. here in the US). The Mpassive is so good I haven't gotten around to the Ampeg amp yet, which is what I really went to his site for.

The CDS Tride-N-True... I can't even begin to wrap my head around this. Loaded the mains with the 11k preset, and hit every single track and group with a 7k. VCC isn't even in the same league. Henry and Michael quickly flattened me with a 1-2 punch.

Alex's GMD... I wasn't looking for a comp, as I really like mine. I was torn between the modern white and german mastering. GMD won out, and it's been wonderful. So smooth and pro. I'd like to know a little bit more details on the bc setting (bass cut, is it something between, say, 90-250Hz?). 1.5:1 and subtle settings on the buss and I'm happy as a butcher's dog. Alex's Fenix is winking at me ("buy me, buy meeee...")

I've been so entranced since this afternoon with the above I haven't even made it over to Tim P's or signal-to-noise's sites yet.

The only algo's I've been running are amp sims (soon to be replaced) and DMG Audio's Equilibrium and Equick (I'll probably keep these for general EQing).

Wow.
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby gurth » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:10 pm

Amazing!
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby garyk_123 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:24 am

Hey Swartzfeger you're getting there! One of the best ways to reach your goal is to emulate through nebula an analogue recording session followed by an analogue mixing session. That would involve the following at its most extensive:

Recording
Guitar amp
Mic
Pre
Console
Tape

Mixing
Console
Comp
Eq

Bus
Console
More eq/comp

Master
Console
More eq /comp
Tape

Plus a bus reverb

It's a lot and you'd probably need to render a few times along the way but the breadth of choices you have in nebula are amazing. I rarely use algos anymore.

I know of no better way to 'sound like a record' itb. What I have found is that I now use eqs and comps more like they were originally intended for - modest manipulation. Before nebula I had to really slam sounds with plugs to give them any life but it never sounded convincing, at least for my styles. I did find some electronic styles worked well in pure digital but that's not my thing.

Best of luck on your neb odyssey!
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby mtalavera » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:52 am

swartzfeger wrote:I bought CDS/Michael's T*****t
Henry's Mpassive Mojo, Chiswick Mojo, and Reverb Rocket amp
Alex's GMD

For starters, Henry's Mpassive Mojo is so good I owe him a trip to the pub (I don't drink anymore, but I'm sure I can get some proper tea over there vs. here in the US). The Mpassive is so good I haven't gotten around to the Ampeg amp yet, which is what I really went to his site for.

The CDS Tride-N-True... I can't even begin to wrap my head around this. Loaded the mains with the 11k preset, and hit every single track and group with a 7k. VCC isn't even in the same league. Henry and Michael quickly flattened me with a 1-2 punch.

Alex's GMD... I wasn't looking for a comp, as I really like mine. I was torn between the modern white and german mastering. GMD won out, and it's been wonderful. So smooth and pro. I'd like to know a little bit more details on the bc setting (bass cut, is it something between, say, 90-250Hz?). 1.5:1 and subtle settings on the buss and I'm happy as a butcher's dog. Alex's Fenix is winking at me ("buy me, buy meeee...")

I've been so entranced since this afternoon with the above I haven't even made it over to Tim P's or signal-to-noise's sites yet.

The only algo's I've been running are amp sims (soon to be replaced) and DMG Audio's Equilibrium and Equick (I'll probably keep these for general EQing).

Wow.


Can you explain further how you are using the Mpassive Mojo? Are you following the recommendation of using it along with the UAD Massive Passive emulation? I don't have that one, but am wondering if you are using it in a different fashion other than enhancing another plugin.
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby swartzfeger » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:53 am

mtalavera wrote:Can you explain further how you are using the Mpassive Mojo? Are you following the recommendation of using it along with the UAD Massive Passive emulation? I don't have that one, but am wondering if you are using it in a different fashion other than enhancing another plugin.


I have and use the NI/Softube Passive eq, and it's a love/hate thing. I can quickly dial in a sound that works and sounds good, and yet there's something about the sound that bugs me (a plastic sheen? I can't quite put my finger on it). Not sure about this, but I don't think the NI Passive has interactive band dependencies like the UA Massive.

So I just put Equilibrium on and matched the settings as close as I could. Then an instance of the MPassive Mojo.

The difference is night and day. The old mix sounds like wet blanket thrown over an AM radio... so clogged and congested. The quick mix I did yesterday sounds so open, with separation and detail. Unreal.

As always, some caveats. The old mix sucked because I sucked at mixing (this was from something I did about six months ago). Some of it was due to my inexperience; some of it was due to plugins. I simply disabled all plugs (Slate VCC) except for the drum buss comp, put a CDS T*****t instance on every track/group, EQuilibrium on the buss along with MPassive Mojo and Alex B's GMD.

The new mix is far from perfect, but it's much closer. One thing it doesn't quite have that the old one does is a certain weight; this isn't a fault of nebula, but my own lack of experience/knowledge. I EQ'd out some low-mids and I unclogged the congestion, and the MPassive adds a nice something. It just lacks a little weight. Again, I need more experience under my belt to achieve what I hear in my head and translate that to a mix.

I can post before/after if anyone is interested. It can show what Nebula can bring to a poorly done mix. :)
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby mtalavera » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:18 am

swartzfeger wrote:
mtalavera wrote:Can you explain further how you are using the Mpassive Mojo? Are you following the recommendation of using it along with the UAD Massive Passive emulation? I don't have that one, but am wondering if you are using it in a different fashion other than enhancing another plugin.


I have and use the NI/Softube Passive eq, and it's a love/hate thing. I can quickly dial in a sound that works and sounds good, and yet there's something about the sound that bugs me (a plastic sheen? I can't quite put my finger on it). Not sure about this, but I don't think the NI Passive has interactive band dependencies like the UA Massive.

So I just put Equilibrium on and matched the settings as close as I could. Then an instance of the MPassive Mojo.

The difference is night and day. The old mix sounds like wet blanket thrown over an AM radio... so clogged and congested. The quick mix I did yesterday sounds so open, with separation and detail. Unreal.

As always, some caveats. The old mix sucked because I sucked at mixing (this was from something I did about six months ago). Some of it was due to my inexperience; some of it was due to plugins. I simply disabled all plugs (Slate VCC) except for the drum buss comp, put a CDS T*****t instance on every track/group, EQuilibrium on the buss along with MPassive Mojo and Alex B's GMD.

The new mix is far from perfect, but it's much closer. One thing it doesn't quite have that the old one does is a certain weight; this isn't a fault of nebula, but my own lack of experience/knowledge. I EQ'd out some low-mids and I unclogged the congestion, and the MPassive adds a nice something. It just lacks a little weight. Again, I need more experience under my belt to achieve what I hear in my head and translate that to a mix.

I can post before/after if anyone is interested. It can show what Nebula can bring to a poorly done mix. :)


This is a great explanation, thank you for such a detailed response. I would very much be interested in the before/after. I am contemplating replacing VCC with the CDS T*****t, but wondered if I was going to notice a big difference between the two to where my money would be better spent on something else (like the Gemini Audio KultComp or the G2500 or the Cupwise 609 Comp/Limiter....and the list goes on and on).

I've read in your earlier posts how it was night and day between the VCC and the CDS T*****t, so I am very intrigued as I am trying to replace all my non-Nebula plugins I used to love now that I am becoming fully Nebulized.
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby swartzfeger » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:42 am

Ok, here are two quick bounces. I took a 40 second snip and did two bounces, the original (A) and Nebulized (B).

Bounces as 320kbps MP3. Not ideal, but they're higher res, and certainly hi res enough to hear the difference between the two. Each 40 sec snip is about 1.6MB.

This is just me on bass and guitar (two tracks) plus drums I programmed in SSD4. Amplitube used on bass and guitars. VCC T*****t on every track, grouped... 8x oversampling and 2db drive to hear a little harmonic mojo mumbo jumbo.

NI Passive EQ, TDR Feedback Compressor II + Voxengo Elephant on mixbuss.

Few notes... I didn't really know what I was doing when I first started recording with my Apollo back in April (still don't :) ). The drums, unfortunately, I bounced them to a stereo track to save CPU; back then I didn't know how to set up Slate's fancy mixer into separate, discrete tracks in Logic. So the drums can't really be balanced or tweaked.

Anyway, enough apologizing :) For the nebulizing, I simply replaced Slate VCC with Nebula3 -> CDSM Tride-N-Tru. I also replaced the NI Passive with Equilibrium. Then, added Henry's MPassive Mojo + Henry's Chiswick Mojo, followed by AlexB's GMD (replacing TDR Feedback) and Voxengo Elephant stayed the same.

I don't know much about comps, I kinda just dialed in GMD quickly by ear -- 7ms attack, auto release, -22 threshold, 3db gain.

The only thing different that I can think of -- in the original, the guitar sends to the reverb aux didn't have anything on them; in bounce B, I put Tride-N-Tru on them just for giggles.

In total, this took all of 5 minutes. No long, laborious tweaking, I simply replaced Slate VCC with CDSM T*****t, added the mojos, replaced the comp.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2340059/mix-A.mp3

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2340059/mix-B.mp3

(note: MP3 URLs above don't open in separate window/tab)
Last edited by swartzfeger on Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby swartzfeger » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 am

Just a thought or two listening to those two bounces after the fact. First, when I decided whether or not to replace NI Passive with EQuilibrium, I matched EQuilibrium as closely as I could to the Passive. Then auditioned each one until I felt all the A/B comparisons were starting to fool/fatigue my ears. Basically, the EQuilibrium made no difference vs. the NI Passive... in other words, it wasn't the drastic difference in sound that I'm attributing to Henry's, Alex's and Michael's Nebula3 libraries. I could've bounced mix A with Equilibrium and it would've sounded virtually the same.

Second, these weren't level matched at all. I have no idea how to do that. :/ Mix A is louder. Caveat lector! (how do you say listener in Latin?)
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby Definity » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:01 am

The most width i have heard from any Neb console is AlexB VBC and used with something like DME 1968 FET/Tube Compressor with Big mode on sounds huge lots of space in tracks. It is possible to sample things like the K-processor and other widening techniques aswell. When I first heard VBC it blew the others out of the water. I hope Henry will bring out a Pro version of some consoles
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Re: presets for depth/dimension/separation/3D stereo

Postby yr » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:39 pm

I like your first mix better. I think if you cleaned the low and low-mid a bit (maybe 70 & 250hz ?) it's going to sound quite balanced. The second mix sounds more strident and flat to me.

If you want better separation between the instruments, try using less effects on your master bus. I normally have the opposite since I work with material that comes from many sources.
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