Login

SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:05 am

SWANG wrote:
ngarjuna wrote:If people are willing to trade this kind of functionality for cute GUI's that makes me a little bit sad, actually; that's almost antithetical to the Nebula way of doing things.


although i have no first hand knowledge of giancarlo's intention, i suspect that his plans will likely include an update to acqua in order to accommodate said functionality. definitely share your concerns, but i've learned to not underestimate g's ingenuity. :)

Oh for sure. I didn't mean that as a commentary on the new development (which I know pretty much nothing about other than what little has been said here on the forums) I just don't understand why everyone is so enamored with Acqua; it's just a Nebula library without the variation in sampling and different graphics. I'm guessing Acqua comes somewhat closer to peoples' ideals of what the Nebula UI might be more like but...the only real difference is that the LED is replaced by pretty pictures. It's not like Acqua gave us multi-band EQs or anything like that. I think RJ's development is far more promising in terms of making a more palatable UI. Just my 2 copper pieces, either way I'm glad to see that Nebula is continuing down the development path.
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby mightymosaic » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:55 am

Hold up hold up hold up!! Your telling me the aqua version of nebula doesn't lighten CPU load?
mightymosaic
Member
Member
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:17 am

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby Cupwise » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:04 am

mightymosaic wrote:Hold up hold up hold up!! Your telling me the aqua version of nebula doesn't lighten CPU load?
i'm pretty sure it doesn't, but why would it? acqua and nebula both are doing the same thing. the fact that it's only one program packaged with a gui wouldn't improve cpu any. nebula does the same thing. if you load one program, it's only processing with one program. same thing with acqua.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby mightymosaic » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:22 am

Well I had that twisted! I can careless what it looks like , I guess I'm stuck waiting for nebula server to be implemented properly.
mightymosaic
Member
Member
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:17 am

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby Cupwise » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:59 am

i see it like this- for nebula to grow and expand and attract lots of new customers, the gui would have to be streamlined, OR there would have to be something like the 'guru' mode that unlocks other parts of the settings. so for example, by default you'd have a streamlined gui without the main LCD window, or only a few items from that such as the program name and program details being displayed, and a way to select other programs. then maybe there would be an alternate skin or something that you could switch to to get the lcd window and be able to root around in all the other stuff.

for more experienced users i get what ngarjuna is saying, totally. acqua releases are streamlined in a way where you can't load other programs so something is lost from the nebula experience. but i still think it'd be a simple matter to keep the alternate program loading ability and lose all of the settings and stuff that just confuse and distract new users. to be honest i think they distract and confuse even the experienced users a lot of times and should all just be hidden by default, and mainly left to the developers to adjust, if they choose to.

but however it would be handled, i think it's a simple fact that the gui as it is hurts nebula's ability to attract more users. i've seen new users say the gui was confusing a lot of times, i couldn't count them. to me it's not so confusing but i EASILY see why it would be to a new user. compare to say, any random vst EQ or comp, which won't have ANY of that kind of stuff.

all a typical vst comp will have will be a thresh, ratio, attack, release, maybe high pass sidechain, and maybe some other controls but all related to compression or at least in some way directly adjusting something about the sound which is probably easy to figure out what it's doing. with nebula you have maybe hundreds of things going on in the 'edit' pages, also in the kern page, and also in the master page, which are totally different from the typical kinds of parameters you see on other plug-ins. they may have an affect over what happens but it's nowhere near obvious how or why. the edit stuff is like with kontakt how you can program the sample sets to do different things. that's useful to people developing sample sets but not to end users, and how often do you see people in the forums panicking because they find that stuff and think they need to adjust it?

maybe some gain could be had in some way, by adjusting some of that stuff. but my point has always been, that every plugin out there has hidden parameters that you can't see or adjust because the dev didn't make them available. they used them while testing and tweaking the comp or eq, to fine tune the filter curves or dynamic behavior, and once they found a spot they liked they set it at that and moved on, and didn't make a control for it in the gui. every program that exists has things that are set by the dev, and which MAYBE, if you had access to it, you could hotrod that program to do some particular task a little better. but you can't, because they didn't let you. they have to pick and decide which parameters to allow you access to, and set the others and leave them fixed and hidden. and since you don't know about those hidden parameters, you don't worry about them. to me that's a bit more how nebula should be. things should be more 'out of sight, out of mind'. that's just my opinion anyway.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby Henry Olonga » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:56 pm

I agree Tim and like the way you are thinking,
I think the whole skin thing has a bit of scope to improve. If we had those who are able in the community to create skins for sale or for free that would add to the appeal I am convinced. For example let's say one bought an A*I EQ and had just one band - then a photorealistic skin can be made to correspond to that band without all the other un-needed sliders. Hmmmmmm I need to research GUIs a little. Could be dope to figure this out. We would need Giancarlo to add a drop down menu on the front so that picking a skin is a one click affair and going back to default is easy as well. Hmmmmmm I like it ;)
User avatar
Henry Olonga
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:38 am
Location: South west England

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby Cupwise » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:57 pm

i did a gui for a tube fm 1 acqua release i wanted to do, last december. i had buttons that you could click that would select different programs. in the set there were 6 radios i used, and each was sampled multiple times, so what i did was i had 6 'modules' (different skins) and each had however many buttons needed for each program made for that radio.

it worked. so it is already possible. the problem was that for some reason the moment you clicked a program change button the cpu use shot up really high and stayed there. another problem that turned me off of acqua was a bug where you couldn't have a trim control in a program. if you did, you'd get incredibly loud volume spikes when you loaded that program.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:30 pm

Henry Olonga wrote:I agree Tim and like the way you are thinking,
I think the whole skin thing has a bit of scope to improve. If we had those who are able in the community to create skins for sale or for free that would add to the appeal I am convinced. For example let's say one bought an A*I EQ and had just one band - then a photorealistic skin can be made to correspond to that band without all the other un-needed sliders. Hmmmmmm I need to research GUIs a little. Could be dope to figure this out. We would need Giancarlo to add a drop down menu on the front so that picking a skin is a one click affair and going back to default is easy as well. Hmmmmmm I like it ;)

When I made my last skins (it has been a while already) I played with a couple proof of concepts that had no controls, just meters and the LED. They did work to the extent that I expected them to. So I think this might be a workable idea even right now (not 100% positive though).
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby richie43 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:25 pm

I have been in communication with a reviewer who is preparing a thorough review of Nebula (I am sure most of you devs have been contacted by him), and the things that bug him most seem to all be GUI related. Of course, not purely aesthetically, but functionality and neatness, as Cupwise is saying. One thing that he has mentioned more than once, an idea I have also wondered about many times, is the fact that there is no simple way to change presets- like arrows or "next" and "previous" buttons. He did some simple math using hours of work, how many seconds it takes to navigate the menu to look at different presets and select, test preset, and check some more. It seems inconsequential, but if you are a full-time audio professional and these extra seconds actually add up to hours per week that could be trimmed down with a GUI improvement, then that could be enough to tip the scales unfavorably for these pros who WANT to incorporate Nebula technology into the work, but can't wrap their head around the idea of being ok with that "wasted" time. Especially when they think that they are all set for tools and those tools are fast and intuitive. I know that GUI changes to Nebula are not as simple as an algo plugin, so maybe it is what it is. But this reviewer loves what Nebula does to audio, but is troubled by the daunting prospects of trying to make it more attractive to many more people besides us crazy Nebula fanatics.
The Sounds of the Hear and Now
http://soundyaudio.com/
richie43
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4866
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:47 pm
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: SUPPORT THE DEVS!!

Postby Tim Petherick » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:13 pm

I think nebula used to have the arrow thing your talking about before the navigation changed. That was a while back. Or maybe I'm just imagining it?


richie43 wrote:I have been in communication with a reviewer who is preparing a thorough review of Nebula (I am sure most of you devs have been contacted by him), and the things that bug him most seem to all be GUI related. Of course, not purely aesthetically, but functionality and neatness, as Cupwise is saying. One thing that he has mentioned more than once, an idea I have also wondered about many times, is the fact that there is no simple way to change presets- like arrows or "next" and "previous" buttons. He did some simple math using hours of work, how many seconds it takes to navigate the menu to look at different presets and select, test preset, and check some more. It seems inconsequential, but if you are a full-time audio professional and these extra seconds actually add up to hours per week that could be trimmed down with a GUI improvement, then that could be enough to tip the scales unfavorably for these pros who WANT to incorporate Nebula technology into the work, but can't wrap their head around the idea of being ok with that "wasted" time. Especially when they think that they are all set for tools and those tools are fast and intuitive. I know that GUI changes to Nebula are not as simple as an algo plugin, so maybe it is what it is. But this reviewer loves what Nebula does to audio, but is troubled by the daunting prospects of trying to make it more attractive to many more people besides us crazy Nebula fanatics.
User avatar
Tim Petherick
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Bath , Uk

PreviousNext

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests