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Re: Pirates !

Postby Cupwise » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:23 pm

a)he said 'we are able to' not 'we have'
b)he didn't say what it would do
c)nobody has ever, in how many years now, had anything horrible happen because of nebula
d)you are running on an OS that has 'malicious code' built in. windows and mac both can be used to destroy everything on your drive. you have to either format the drive, or delete the files on it, but the code/routines have to exist in the OS for that to be possible. does having that code/routine in windows make it a 'ticking time bomb'? no. just don't delete/format your disk drive. same thing here. don't pirate libraries.
e)and that's kind of assuming a worst case scenario, that it is some kind of bomb that destroys a drive. but the point is, a code isn't just going to run itself. i've never, in 20+yrs of using computers, had windows just decide to delete everything without my telling it to. but the routine/code is there. there are all kinds of codes and routines that are built into your OS, and your DAWS, which if used in a certain way, the effect would be malicious. they are right there, at all times. just a few clicks away. but they never just decide to run themselves for no reason.
f)you could actually download a huge collection of computer viruses, and just store them on your computer without running them. as long as you never ran them, your computer would never get infected. that's how code works. it has to be ran before it can do anything.
e)as i said in c), no honest nebula user has had their system damaged or destroyed due to nebula, at least not that i've ever heard of. in years.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby ngarjuna » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:45 am

I have no idea what Giancarlo meant by his comments. However I would caution everyone against getting overly excited. Not only do I love Nebula as a product but I've been working with Giancarlo for years now (I developed some skins when the metering engine changed and Giancarlo supported me quite a bit on the new, undocumented changes) and I have always found him to be an upright, forthcoming, honest developer with nothing but good intentions. His business model and constant dedication to the user base say as much. So I would give him the benefit of the doubt (or at least await his clarification) before I got too concerned about Nebula and any dubious programming practices.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby daveedwards » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:54 am

I agree with both of you guys, I'm not trying to make him out to be a bad guy, my experiences with him have been good.

Really my frustration just stems from the fact that I can't use Nebula in Logic 64 bit, which is really all I'm comfortable producing with, while PC users of Nebula have a nice 64 bit version for their money. Now what that boils down to is that apparently for some unknown reason, when they've tried to make a 64 bit AU, the interface mysteriously disappears. Look I am by no means a programmer but all I was intending to say earlier is, let's maybe focus a bit more on making sure all paid customers are taken care of before we spend time, effort, and coding knowledge putting some easter eggs in the software for pirates. Who knows if said protections are causing some of the problems with compatibility, as he seemed to reference.

I had an experience with a synth developer who is famous for very heavy non-dongle software protection. He tells you repeatedly when you buy his synths that they're watermarked, and that there's other stuff going on under the hood. Fine right? The problem is, the synths I bought from this guy are the most buggy, PITA pieces of software I've ever used. Whether or not the software protection is directly leading to their instability is really not the question - the question is how much better and more stable could his products be if he spent that time he invested in over the top copy protection (which hasn't worked, btw) on the plugins functionality and compatibility. I don't want to see Nebula take that path.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby ngarjuna » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:22 am

daveedwards wrote:I agree with both of you guys, I'm not trying to make him out to be a bad guy, my experiences with him have been good.

Really my frustration just stems from the fact that I can't use Nebula in Logic 64 bit, which is really all I'm comfortable producing with, while PC users of Nebula have a nice 64 bit version for their money. Now what that boils down to is that apparently for some unknown reason, when they've tried to make a 64 bit AU, the interface mysteriously disappears. Look I am by no means a programmer but all I was intending to say earlier is, let's maybe focus a bit more on making sure all paid customers are taken care of before we spend time, effort, and coding knowledge putting some easter eggs in the software for pirates. Who knows if said protections are causing some of the problems with compatibility, as he seemed to reference.

I had an experience with a synth developer who is famous for very heavy non-dongle software protection. He tells you repeatedly when you buy his synths that they're watermarked, and that there's other stuff going on under the hood. Fine right? The problem is, the synths I bought from this guy are the most buggy, PITA pieces of software I've ever used. Whether or not the software protection is directly leading to their instability is really not the question - the question is how much better and more stable could his products be if he spent that time he invested in over the top copy protection (which hasn't worked, btw) on the plugins functionality and compatibility. I don't want to see Nebula take that path.

Totally fair point, I get what you're saying.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby giancarlo » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:57 am

I don't know what you are speaking about... if you download things from us or 3rd party developers there is nothing to worry about... if you download it from an other site maybe not... you'll never know if a danger copy was loaded or not, exactly as many other software. The only difference: if you load a wrong copy of excel maybe your antivirus will tell you. But music is a niche... if a wrong nebula damages your beloved audio session maybe your antivirus will not able to detect it... plain simple
So... trust certified websites, especially for music tools, unless you are not serious with your work
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Re: Pirates !

Postby giancarlo » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:12 am

and the capability of loading dll by nebula (or mac dylibs) was introduced before nebula ever appeared on the market. It's not code we waste time on.
When you load an encrypted library it decompress other crypted code inside that specific n2v and uses it for decompressing kernel and wav files. It's the way nebula works. If you download things from us or 3rd party devs there is no reason why that piece of code should execute someting else, because there is no damaged code there. This doesn't prevent us to upload libraries with malicious code on other websites ;)
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Re: Pirates !

Postby giancarlo » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:19 am

SpliffSplaff wrote:Well...i am a little bit (to say the least) nervous now. Im running a small company and i have some, for me and my customers, very important data on my computer. Now i would like to know what i actually installed with Nebula. I think you should have informed your customers that there is some encrypted stuff delivered with this software. And as you said that it is not detectable, no one knows (except AA staff) what it is. As a legit customer that i am, i expect an explanation. Thanks.


just to assure you, things downloaded from our website don't have troubles at all. They are perfectly clean. There is hidden code in each library and this code just decrypt things, there is nothing else inside. But if you care your company data NEVER download EVEN simple libraries from PIRATED sites. Trust only us, 3rd party developers and obviously new developers who are distributing their work. You know if a software is pirated or not. There is google. Alexb sells those library, he doesn't provide them for free. Dead simple.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby Owen » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:02 pm

Can't say I'm really enjoying this thread. We knew this would happen such a long time ago.

All Giancarlo is saying is, you should only trust what you bought.

Food for thought: Spending too much time in this thread will cost you about the price of one of Henry's presets, assuming of course you value your time!

Owen ;)
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Re: Pirates !

Postby musicgreator » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:18 pm

Amen!
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Re: Pirates !

Postby MegaDude » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:28 pm

giancarlo wrote:and the capability of loading dll by nebula (or mac dylibs) was introduced before nebula ever appeared on the market. It's not code we waste time on.
When you load an encrypted library it decompress other crypted code inside that specific n2v and uses it for decompressing kernel and wav files. It's the way nebula works. If you download things from us or 3rd party devs there is no reason why that piece of code should execute someting else, because there is no damaged code there. This doesn't prevent us to upload libraries with malicious code on other websites ;)


ah ok, thanks. makes sense. I'm in favor of uploading evil versions of nebula on cracked websites.
:D
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