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Re: Pirates !

Postby richie43 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:27 am

koda wrote:I spent more than 200$ in the last 2-3 weeks and I'm just a very easy going hobbist, like doing a song each 7-8 YEARS, because I have many other hobbies as well and I like to rotate between them (and I don't have money to throw out of the window).
I really don't understand why a professional working with Nebula and considering how cheap the libraries are shoudln't buy originals.
At the end it's just a matter of coscience, since everything can be cracked sooner or later (unless you go iLok2 wich at the moment seems to resist since none of the audio pirates wants to invest time/person to crack it).
By the way I firmly stand on the point that the public released nebula programs on audio warez sites did a big advertising to the whole nebula world.
Now for sure a far wider audience knows this project.

The cracked uploads definitely made people aware of Nebula, which may generate some sales. But let's be realistic sir: who is reading about Nebula on these crack-ware sites....? Potential customers? Very few. Think about it; most of the people perusing those sites are looking for FREE DOWNLOADS....
I am glad for people to hear about it, and I am glad that you spend money on good tools for your work, be it pro or hobby. And as I said already, I love your positive outlook, as I am a hopeless optimist. But I don't think that your care-free attitude is a good one for the masses, lol. I WANT people to be concerned, be aware, and be angry about theft. Have you ever had anything stolen from you? Have you ever worked very hard and found out later that the work was not being paid for when you had been depending on the money, even a little bit of money? It's crappy, and I don't think that any amount of "free advertising" on the crack-ware sites is going to be a good thing for any dev.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby AlexB » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:14 pm

richie43 wrote:While I appreciate your positive out-look, I have to disagree. I am in correspondence with studios all over the world, and may of them. And you would be surprised at how many (MANY!!) professional studios use tons of crack-ware in their money making. I am always shocked because as you said, it is risky. And you are indeed correct that most people are aware of the risks they are putting to their system. But unfortunately tour positive thoughts, in my opinion based on experience, are merely positive thoughts and not reality. I wish you were correct, and I wish that developers could worry less about their hard work being usurped and not paid for. But I have seen many developers get hit very hard by software piracy, I have even known a few that it made enough of a difference that they had to quit making the cool software that I loved using. And that is the biggest shame in this. So as much as I WANT to agree with your "Hey devs, it won't hurt your business" positive feelings, I can't agree at all because it does indeed hurt their wallets. Ask Alex..... every time even one person downloads a cracked library, that is a loss of income and a huge slap in the face.


I agree 100% with Richie.
Nebula programs on audio warez sites does a big advertising to the whole nebula world is an idiocy, IMHO but the fact is that I have seen an huge difference in sales in these last three month, now I sell -90% than before and, I'm sorry to say that, a lot of returning customers that "place an order" for discounted price and then they disappear ... Coincidence...

Again: it's not only a matter of money to cover the rent-mods-develop new programs BUT a respect for the job also... Think at the "flagship" console that require more than one month to sampling and over 6.000EUR to investment (it require more than one year to cover the costs) and the day after the release the cunning guy writes "wow, this shit is fantastic and make my mix awesome, thanks for sharing".

As Antonello said: balanced protection is the way.
Watermark is pure placebo, totally useless and ignored by warez sites.
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
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Re: Pirates !

Postby richie43 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:33 pm

As much as I like to think that most people will support the developers of their favorite tools, I don't see evidence of this. It's like even when people mean well, and want to buy from all of the developers, when the temptation of free stuff appears to them, I think the temptation is hard to resist for more people than we care to admit. So I think that the best way to deal with it is to try to reduce the possibility of the temptation, and that unfortunately means some kind of copy protection. It sucks for the end-user, but it is the end-users who have made these crappy decisions that have spoiled it, it's not the developers fault. I have total respect for the devs who continue to release their product with zero copy protection; I think that it is noble and brave. But I also have just as much respect for the devs that have made the hard decision to start implementing some copy protection to try to protect their livelihood. It sucks for us, maybe. But if you are really that upset about, think of ways you can deter or even stop this theft from going on, don't attack the devs for this decision.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby koda » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:02 pm

balanced protection is the way

If you go back in this thread you'll see this was my first suggestion. BUT couple this with the far wider audience that you gathered even through pirate sites and it should even things out quite soon with the next 2-3 release.
At least I hope so.
There should be some kind of "protection" for customers as well. With this I mean that, just like some other user pointed out, all the third party devs are most likely individuals, so what happens if all of a sudden one gives up or disappear?
I guess that a sort of "master key" for everything should be given to Acustica Audio, just in case this happen (let's hope the exact opposite... that even more join the developers world).
Best luck for all in any case
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Re: Pirates !

Postby jeffbdavis » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:54 pm

FWIW, I just read this article about piracy posted on Lifehacker and thought it hit the mark pretty well: http://lifehacker.com/5990525/why-i-sto ... -for-media

Essentially, the idea is that people take the road of least resistance. If the experience of paying for your software is easier/less-expensive/less-risky, then that's the greatest disincentive for piracy. Low prices, demo versions, good customer support all lead to that... copy protection schemes, not so much IMO.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby richie43 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 pm

jeffbdavis wrote:FWIW, I just read this article about piracy posted on Lifehacker and thought it hit the mark pretty well: http://lifehacker.com/5990525/why-i-sto ... -for-media

Essentially, the idea is that people take the road of least resistance. If the experience of paying for your software is easier/less-expensive/less-risky, then that's the greatest disincentive for piracy. Low prices, demo versions, good customer support all lead to that... copy protection schemes, not so much IMO.


I did see that article before, and it is indeed well written and brings up some good points. But that path of least resistance comes at many levels, and I still see it as a case that if the free product is available at all, especially with little consequence, that IS the least resistant path, even if there is no copy protection, no demos, and simple check-out process when purchasing. It already is simpler to buy something than deal with the crack-ware paths (wait times, captcha's, possible viruses, etc) and people still use them IF it is offered. I do understand the unpleasantness of copy protection, but many devs are just beginning to face the decision between basically turning their head at piracy or using some form of copy protection. As I keep saying, I think it sucks too, I am not a fan of copy protection as a user, but I do support the decisions of the devs, especially if they are either going to either implement copy protection or stop making software. I'd still buy from Alex, Henry, Michael, Cupwise (There are more, of course!) even if they start using copy protection. AITB has done a great job with theirs, I think. And Henry has his own trickery going on, lol. I say let the devs do what they feel they need to do to stay in business.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby dwagrimm » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:23 pm

Hi Alex,

to read your last post is´nt funny. my opinion about cp is still the same but I´ve changed my view after your post. I´m very happy to have developers like you and I hope I can buy some more stuff of you (and the other developers too) in the future. you loose so much? that´s more then "not funny". go ahead with your cp. you have my support. but please no ilok. thanks in respect.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby Definity » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:08 pm

This might be over board but how about polymorphic encryption for a system ID and for that ID only.

I start a degree in Software Engineering in September If this thing is still going on in a few years then I will definitely start to think of how to go about protecting developers.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby jeffbdavis » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:44 am

richie43 wrote:I did see that article before, and it is indeed well written and brings up some good points. But that path of least resistance comes at many levels, and I still see it as a case that if the free product is available at all, especially with little consequence, that IS the least resistant path, even if there is no copy protection, no demos, and simple check-out process when purchasing. It already is simpler to buy something than deal with the crack-ware paths (wait times, captcha's, possible viruses, etc) and people still use them IF it is offered. I do understand the unpleasantness of copy protection, but many devs are just beginning to face the decision between basically turning their head at piracy or using some form of copy protection. As I keep saying, I think it sucks too, I am not a fan of copy protection as a user, but I do support the decisions of the devs, especially if they are either going to either implement copy protection or stop making software. I'd still buy from Alex, Henry, Michael, Cupwise (There are more, of course!) even if they start using copy protection. AITB has done a great job with theirs, I think. And Henry has his own trickery going on, lol. I say let the devs do what they feel they need to do to stay in business.


I agree with many of your points - the article just got me thinking about the issue from a slightly different perspective. Not entirely against CP, but moderation is the key, I guess. :)
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Re: Pirates !

Postby richie43 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:04 am

Definity wrote:This might be over board but how about polymorphic encryption for a system ID and for that ID only.

I start a degree in Software Engineering in September If this thing is still going on in a few years then I will definitely start to think of how to go about protecting developers.


This is what i was hoping for. Solutions from users to help the devs besides just as customers. More of that!
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