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Pirates !

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Re: Pirates !

Postby cpwade » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:24 pm

AITB protection is painless and very efficient. (I'm ilok dependent grrr)

I'll get flamed for this, but in the end all of this will be good.
Nebula is now mainstream, a bunch of 14 year old kids will now grow up in this culture and perpetuate it. The very few whom become brilliant artists or at least great engineers will come to see Nebula as the expected standard. It worked for Digidesign when it was 6 guys releasing session 8 in 1993 for $50. Same analogy.

If you zoom out a bit on this evolution, you will notice that we are no longer a secret club of crusty super-anal audio scientists or artists thinking this will help us sound better. (and it does).

Welcome to a new age. Bitter pill indeed in the moment.
Nevertheless, an amazing time, we have been "outed".
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Re: Pirates !

Postby richie43 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:35 pm

AlexB wrote:"IF" I decide to continue to release libraries ....


And that, my friends, is the real travesty that results from software piracy. And don't forget, the people cracking and uploading this stuff are not even half of the problem. Many people are willing to download and use cracked software, so the demand is high for the "crackers" to feed their egos and supply the demand. I have actually personally met (yes, face-to-face, not just on the internet) 2 different people who crack software, and both of them, in one way or another, were very clear about their intentions and goals. It is not to supply good tools for broke musicians, it's to feel like a bad-ass, like they have "screwed the man". The pity is that they usually start out appreciating and using similar tools, they are artists, engineers, etc. But somewhere along the line they get all pumped up and pompous about the whole "Pirate" thing..... I say catch them and make them "walk the plank". When people like Alex start considering stopping developing these fine tools, I get more angry at the people willing to use the pirated stuff. Dang.....
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Re: Pirates !

Postby richie43 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:37 pm

cpwade wrote:AITB protection is painless and very efficient. (I'm ilok dependent grrr)

I'll get flamed for this, but in the end all of this will be good.
Nebula is now mainstream, a bunch of 14 year old kids will now grow up in this culture and perpetuate it. The very few whom become brilliant artists or at least great engineers will come to see Nebula as the expected standard. It worked for Digidesign when it was 6 guys releasing session 8 in 1993 for $50. Same analogy.

If you zoom out a bit on this evolution, you will notice that we are no longer a secret club of crusty super-anal audio scientists or artists thinking this will help us sound better. (and it does).

Welcome to a new age. Bitter pill indeed in the moment.
Nevertheless, an amazing time, we have been "outed".


I just wanted to re-post this. Well put! This should be a "sticky".
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Re: Pirates !

Postby davidgary73 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:37 pm

AlexB wrote:"IF" I decide to continue to release libraries they will be protected, as the libraries released will be updated at Ver.2 (improving sound and performance of course). But IF...
Since I don't believe in the pirate advertising (we are not Waves...) from what I see on the selling side and a lot of criticism about the not so easy use of Nebula.
Just my thought.


Proceed with the protection Alex. NO one here can tell you otherwise. We will still buy from you because we already know your works.

The not so easy to use Nebula is a super common thing for starters. Until they learn the ins and out of Nebula, it becomes easy.

I totally agree with cpwade as to AITB protection method. AITB seen this coming hence they took the first step to protect their goods.

IMHO, every developer should be wise to protect their products. At the end of the day, the choice is in thier hands to do it or not.

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Re: Pirates !

Postby Henry Olonga » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:41 pm

sfunk wrote:Did any of the developers try as i suggested and ask one of the cracked sites (the site with 'news' in its names) to remove the links? As i said i have heard that place has a 'No Slate cracks" policy because Slate and crew demanded cracks to any of their stuff was not allowed (go figure how Slate has so much say over a audio cracks site.) I am really curious to see if other developers get treated the same was as Slate.



I have written to the audioz.info website and they replied, seem as they will co-operate at this stage.

If this whole saga is ego based then the more you protect your products the more of a challenge it is for the crackers and the harder they try don't you think? I don't know what the solution is - I have a horse in this race of course but this is a tough one. As I said earlier in the thread, I have thought long and hard about this. I am a customer first and a developer second. More power to everyone else who develops to determine which way they will go on this. CP is a PITA for all concerned but no system is perfect although some work well. Syncrosoft perhaps is the closest to being unobtrusive. Stable drivers, at this stage uncracked ( I believe ) and portable. For example, VSL gives me three licenses for their software and if one fails I have backups. If they go out of business I will always have the authoristion with me whether I upgrade my computer or not, or my HDD crashes. Yes the dongle costs money, yes it takes up a usb port bla bla bla but I have no complaints about the system. Ilok has been okay although has been more of an irritation with constant driver updates and a website that works best with Firefox in my experience ( Windows 7 64 bit ). The least favourite are the challenge response IMHO. If your computer dies or you upgrade good luck re-installing the licenses for your 340 plugins that use the system. As I said earlier, Tascam just shelved Gigastudio without warning. See where it left me - and I had the expensive version. Any developer can just decide that they have had enough and close the business. You are SOL with your next computer upgrade.
So say I decide to enforce CP on my next products - problem is - I plan on releasing a few hundred in the next few years. Is every one of them going to need an individual challenge/response? Think about that guys. At least from my perspective as someone who releases quite a few products.

Perhaps the time has come to consider doing CP the way the big boys do it? My vote would go with Syncrosft. They do so much right IMHO. But now we enter the realm of paying prices that are big boy prices as well. I am going to do things differently.

I am going to have standard releases that are cheap and anyone can afford. But from now on if you want my Deluxe products - you will have to pay a little extra for them, they will be hand made and customised and the vectors will be in your name. They will not be instant download but they will be better than the instant download versions. I think that is an innovative way of dealing with this. As a customer, the only inconvinience is that there is a delay in delivery.

The only way to truly protect Nebula is to run it on custom hardware like UAD. Would be cost prohibitive I would imagine but imagine that. Waves have already done it with the Puigchild. How long until Acustica is made an offer by one of the big boys for the technology then I wonder? I am surprised it hasn't happened yet...
Last edited by Henry Olonga on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby cps418 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:56 pm

cps418 wrote:
Cupwise wrote:yeah i feel that at some point this thread is just going to serve as an advertisement for the pirated stuff.
This might sound kind of bad, but this "nebula pirate preset" thing just might be a positive thing. Seeing how the pirates all came in giant herds for the presets they must really see something strong about what these presets do. So with this full blown pirate advertisement it's now time for nebula to grow into the next generation, (PROTECTION) is the key word. Just look at "Analog In The Box". As far as i have seen very little pirating of them (protection), mucho pirating from alex
(no protection). So with an "A.I.T.B." type of protection and with this pirate advertisement a new generation of opportunity could come out of this.(But now you will be on the protection chase like "Waves" trying to keep up with the pirates.
Talk about "piracy", it's funny to see the last few post do just that.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby cpwade » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:15 pm

Protection is clearly the next step. I have syncrosoft for Steinberg. Good suggestion but I hate dongles (speaking as an ilok user).
Ik Multimedia or even DSP Quattro have web based auth, I like that better and it's effective. Stephano sends notes as well, let's you know when something changed. Totally personalized. Most Iron clad was Bias Peak, also web based like AITB.

Raising of lib pricing as well.

Be nice to see a paypal donation set up like a hurricane relief fund.
It will kick start the goodwill and incentive again maybe.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby koda » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:21 pm

If any developer at any time using challange/response protection, decides to close his business, he should be fair to his customers releasing updates without protection.
This solves the problems. Just protect the libs until your in business.
I disagee with AlexB on the "advertising" effect.
I think the exact opposite. I think that Waves is somehow damaged from piracy since is already well known wordwide, they don't need advertising.
In this case pirated libs imho contributed to a great extent to making nebula known and appreciated where it did not yet arrived, even as a re-proposal where it was tried maybe years ago and then left apart.
As a poster up above wrote:
we are no longer a secret club of crusty super-anal audio scientists or artists

Nevertheless, an amazing time, we have been "outed".

This was the unrequested but useful part of all this story. So move on with protection but now you have a far wider audience than before.
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Re: Pirates !

Postby cpwade » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:34 pm

koda wrote: So move on with protection but now you have a far wider audience than before.


Indeed. If you all want to help, instead of expressing sympathy, dismay, betrayal, anger and moralistically high roading..

Go on a lib buying spree. I just did. Man what a fun way to show support! :P

Wait til the wife sees the the card statement..
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Re: Pirates !

Postby david1103 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:08 pm

cpwade wrote:Protection is clearly the next step... Raising of lib pricing as well.

And goodbye community, goodbye trust, goodbye everything that makes Nebula great. Why not just sell the technology to Waves and be done with it?

I am sat here looking at MY laptop i paid for to do what i please with, not some virtual software prison that someone else holds the keys to, to me software protection is MALWARE on my system working against my best interest. I am expected to pay for this?

Copy protection outdated, backwards looking and self defeating. It hurts sales and spoils the relationship between the company and the user. Nebula is all about community. Its easy to get fooled, it seems like a solution to a problem, but the problem is extremely complex and copy protection is a simplistic and ineffective knee jerk reaction.

Go and look at one of the NFO database sites and see that every bit of software that was in demand has been cracked. The evidence is all there in black and white, even if you wish it wasn't. Have people forgotten that software protection DOES NOT WORK? Why do people want something that does not work?

Developers like Cockos have chosen to trust their customers to the point of zero copy protection. What has happened to their company as a result? Massive vibrant community and a fantastic product. Reaper and Nebula do have a similar background story, very small development team and mass community involvement. Can you imagine what would have happened if Reaper launched with an ILok?

Adding copy protection is much worse than it seems. It doesn't only cause inconvenience and risk possible disaster, it changes the relationship between the user and the company in a negative way. If you feel the same speak up before its too late.
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