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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby lipa » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:03 pm

I did.. and KultComp did get a little better with those tweaks.. 8-) but it's definitely not a very agrresive sounding hardware in the beginning..still.. those two present a new quality in nebula compression.. 8-)
Last edited by lipa on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby biomuse » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:21 am

I tried the community version and yes, it compresses like an algo compressor. Congrats Tim!

Playing devil's advocate, though, I need to ask what tradeoffs are occurring here, if any.

My guess is that it's no accident that you chose a relatively clean compressor to sample for this release. Am I correct in assuming that, with this technique, you won't be able to sample a really thick, characterful compressor with substantial harmonic distortion or complex time-dependent changes?

Or have you really found a way to defy Nebulaic gravity here?
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby Cupwise » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:38 am

biomuse wrote:I tried the community version and yes, it compresses like an algo compressor. Congrats Tim!

Playing devil's advocate, though, I need to ask what tradeoffs are occurring here, if any.

My guess is that it's no accident that you chose a relatively clean compressor to sample for this release. Am I correct in assuming that, with this technique, you won't be able to sample a really thick, characterful compressor with substantial harmonic distortion or complex time-dependent changes?

Or have you really found a way to defy Nebulaic gravity here?


actually, i myself am not 100% sure. that is, as far as sampling 'thick, characterful compression' with this level of behavior. as far as it being no 'accident' about my sampling this compressor, that's kind of interesting to think about. i did do a lot of research before i chose/bought the comp to use. i wanted to take a shot at compression myself and see what i could do, i thought it would be an interesting challenge. i really had no idea what i was getting into, or what may or may not be possible. in the end, i DO think that the 'transparent' nature of these comps has a lot to do with the result, and why it can work the way it does. but i couldn't have known that beforehand, and so i honestly have to say that it was maybe a little bit luck. but, maybe in the back of my head i thought a less tone heavy comp might be easier to start with. i bought these quite a while back so i can't remember my thought process too well.

if you look at the programs, the H1 kern is really short. in another thread i mentioned something about how it might be bad to trim that kern down too much below 10ms, but mine are down to like ~3ms. i still stand by what i said. the fact is, though, that in this case i didn't actually have to cut anything out from the actual impulses to get the kerns to be that short. they just honestly are around ~3ms long (actually a little shorter). i always go in and trim every sample to make sure nothing is kept after the impulses fade below the noise floor, at least with the bigger programs, because with bigger programs you really need to do things like that for efficiency (the biggest in the set has around 5,600 samples and does need a lot of CPU, but compare the size of its vector and how much RAM it takes with other programs with less samples, and you'll see it's VERY efficient. even the CPU use isn't THAT much worse than other comps if you compare to programs with the same kern count, and factor in the extra controls you get and how many more samples there are). so trimming any un-needed, pointless excess makes a better running end result that takes less CPU & RAM. the H1 impulses here really shocked me when i saw that they were actually less than 3ms. and so yeah, i think that's probably because of how transparent the comps are. that shorter length, being less than 10ms (which is standard for comp programs), then helped with things like the response. prog rate can actually go down to ~1ms for the 1k programs. so that can allow for limiting because with a lookahead at 2.7ms, that covers the whole H1 kern length.

the thing is, a 'tone' compressor, in my guess, probably already is trimming off some of the H1 impulse just by taking it down to 10ms, as most/all comp programs do (compare to preamp programs that are usually 50ms in length). but if you take it down even less than that, you are going to lose some of the tone, which for those compressors is pretty much the whole point of having them. an LA2A with 3ms H1 kern is not going to sound like an LA2A. it just won't.

i did get lucky with that- the fact that the H1 impulses came out so short, which is almost certainly because of the extreme transparency of the units. so as far as these comps go, i don't see any 'tradeoff', since i didn't have to sacrifice anything to do it.

but i guess the 'tradeoff' in general would be that a tone-heavy comp probably couldn't work like this with current neb tech, and still keep its tone. the most ideal solution for that would be some way to actually allow for LONGER kern lengths for H1 (more around 50ms), and still have faster prog rates, and that would take a huge leap in Nebula tech. but these are just my uhh, best guesses. maybe it is already possible with what we have.

as for these compressors, even though they are pretty 'transparent', i think the end result still sounds really analog and smooth, very much like the real hardware. i got a little lucky with my choice. ;)
Last edited by Cupwise on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby RJHollins » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:40 am

Well, after reading through the thread, and seeing the hard work/time that went into this ...

Just purchased it.

Gotta support our developers :D
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby mitch » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:38 am

To me it is a huge step for compressors in Nebula.
It compares in quality to the very good eq programms of the other dev's.

Because:
-it works very well at all settings = comparable
to algo comps

-it brings something new to the algo comps users:
it keeps a clarity and a tone in the sound
(= analog comp behaviour!)

-it helps shaping the transients in a lot of different
ways without the need to reload another programm (=workflow)

-it is so cheap!

Thank you so much Cupwise for this new step you made for
the Nebula world with your research!
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby lipa » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:59 am

So.. what's next? If fast and pretty transparent compressors are Your speciality.. let's shoot that A*I 2500 once and for all.. :D pleaasseee :mrgreen: that would be superawesome!
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby Cupwise » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:04 am

mitch wrote:To me it is a huge step for compressors in Nebula.
It compares in quality to the very good eq programms of the other dev's.

wow, these are all really some great compliments guys!
mitch wrote:-it is so cheap!

this is part of my devious plan- to get people to BUY IT! ;)
the next part of the plan is when i release the soft knee comps for about the same price)! muahaha!
mitch wrote:Thank you so much Cupwise for this new step you made for
the Nebula world with your research!

thanks for all the words of appreciation, and i appreciate the support.


on another note, i'd like to point out something i just discovered (and wouldn't have if not for someone at gearslutz asking about it)- the gain reduction meters seem to be pretty accurate here too. at least, that's what i saw from a few quick tests with some test tones. how it holds up in more complex scenarios i'm not sure but it seemed pretty accurate on the tones i checked with. it's not something i even looked at while making these, so it kind of happened on its own, or maybe as a result of the effort i put into calibrating the thresh controls to be fairly accurate. but it wasn't something i cared about while making these, so it's kind of cool that they just came out (or seem to be) working well! :)
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby enriquesilveti » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:09 am

Should be interesting if you can sample at SR 384 kHz = 96 kHz x4 in order to get better and small attack samples.
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby biomuse » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:32 pm

Cupwise wrote:
i did get lucky with that- the fact that the H1 impulses came out so short, which is almost certainly because of the extreme transparency of the units. so as far as these comps go, i don't see any 'tradeoff', since i didn't have to sacrifice anything to do it.

but i guess the 'tradeoff' in general would be that a tone-heavy comp probably couldn't work like this with current neb tech, and still keep its tone.


All technical boundary-pushing involves tradeoffs, and you chose a very good and effective one that works out really well. All one could ask for.

enriquesilvetti wrote:
Should be interesting if you can sample at SR 384 kHz = 96 kHz x4 in order to get better and small attack samples.


I was just about to say that! :mrgreen: It does seem like we could have the whole enchilada - fast compression and character - with high sample rates. I'm sure many would find it worth the CPU overhead.
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Re: Cupwise release: Rayphlex 661x2 A stereo compressors

Postby Tim Petherick » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:01 am

Bought , A new landmark for Nebula compression.

Didn't think it could be done .Superb!!
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