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Nebula Compressors

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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby highvoltage » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:18 pm

Tested your Rayphlex too.
Its much more consistent in the attack, cause its indeed a rather slow compressor. Even on the fastest attack, which is around 0.5ms on display**, it matches a 10ms attack time on an other compressor. (This time its The Glue.)


http://prntscr.com/f90ai
(Glue white, Neb red)


http://prntscr.com/f90cv
(The other way around)


Here is the full picture, just for reference
http://prntscr.com/f90ge


Here you can see that a 6ms is around 30 on Glue.
http://prntscr.com/f90kv


An other intersting thing with (some?) Nebula compressors, is that large chunk of flat attack portion. Its like its been chopped off.
http://prntscr.com/f91cv
(red is nebula)

I just want to state that im not in any way criticising any of the developers products, just merely pointing out the probable artifacts of the engine.
After all, if it works on your audio, then who the fxk cares for these tests. But i for one, started to make these tests on the first place, cause i HEARD that inaccurate behaviour on fast attacks. I still use slower compressors fromtime to time. And i will use this Rayplhex too, cause it seems to be pretty predictable on slower settings.

For fast attacks, i will still go HW.



** Btw, i found a little bug(?), where any attack time lower than the 0.5ms, results in a very slow attack. It just starts to increase inversely below ~0.5ms.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby highvoltage » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:27 pm

Also worth mentioning, that i had a Dedicated Nebula Compressor, with tweaked XML, to get faster prog rates than 2.
But it resulted in much more atrifacts on lot of the programs, so i switched back the 2.

Other thing is, don't ever rely on the gain reduction Nebula displays. It's so far off on some programs, it's not even funny. You can see on the posted pictures, that a 15dB reduction is displayed as ~7dB on nebula.

Sometimes there is like 4-5 dB of reduction happening while nebula stays on 0.
Just sayin' use your ears :D
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby Cupwise » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:51 pm

wow, i hadn't noticed some of these things you pointed out. i just deleted a couple of my always overly wordy paragraphs addressing them all, because i don't want to steer too much towards my own stuff when the OT is neb comps in general. but, i checked out your findings and you're right. one thing, if you lower the thresh a lot more (so you're basically squeezing the crap out of the tones now, and will mostly just see the attacks on the oscilloscope), the attack envelopes become faster and more close in time to the readout in the program. i think it's because of the dynamics in the envelopes themselves and i don't think that's 'correct' behavior so i'll probably look into fixing it, and i think i might be able to address some of the others (like the flat tops, and attack getting slower after you go below .5ms). the blocky shape compared to soft comps is definitely a nebula limitation that i can't do anything about.

i would try to get you to beta test for me but i think this will be my last comp for a while ;)
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby SWAN » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:02 pm

highvoltage wrote:Also worth mentioning, that i had a Dedicated Nebula Compressor, with tweaked XML, to get faster prog rates than 2.
But it resulted in much more atrifacts on lot of the programs, so i switched back the 2.

Other thing is, don't ever rely on the gain reduction Nebula displays. It's so far off on some programs, it's not even funny. You can see on the posted pictures, that a 15dB reduction is displayed as ~7dB on nebula.

Sometimes there is like 4-5 dB of reduction happening while nebula stays on 0.
Just sayin' use your ears :D


hi dude - thanks for your contributions here - very interesting stuff...I was wondering - do you have any of the other comps that use slower attacks? Such as Alex B MWC/FENIX/4k...? Im wondering if they are more accurate...
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby highvoltage » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:13 pm

@Cupwise
Actually i think sometimes that blocky shape is welcome :D The Fate compressor has the same thing, and i think it contributes to the 'fatness' of the sound.

ps.: I'm happy to betatest so drop me a pm anytime, not just compressors. Your cassette programs are one of my most used libraries.

@Swan
I dont have any of AlexB's , just the S*L demo. That has a slow attack. I stopped buying compressors for the above stated reasons.
From the slower ones, I have

Fate compressor (should be fast, but it has the same flat attack portion),

Michael's Drum Compressor lib, (which has varied attack times from super fast to slow.)

Generally most of the times, the faster the attack, the more unreliable it gets.
I just tested it again with real world scenarios like drums, bet even with slower speeds, you will have jumps of volumes. Just put Schope* on a drum channel, and see how the attack of the same exact sample will sometimes have +/- 2 dB of gain.

* you can find it here:
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=26
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby SWAN » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:54 pm

highvoltage wrote:Michael's Drum Compressor lib, (which has varied attack times from super fast to slow.)


on a side note - how do you find CDS Drum pack?

I think Im still gonna try some of these programs...the tone sounds pretty nice on the drum compressor...
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby highvoltage » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:28 pm

I love the tube ones from the Drum Compressors.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby enriquesilveti » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:54 am

Generally most of the times, the faster the attack, the more unreliable it gets.
I just tested it again with real world scenarios like drums, bet even with slower speeds, you will have jumps of volumes. Just put Schope* on a drum channel, and see how the attack of the same exact sample will sometimes have +/- 2 dB of gain.


Did you try to add more look ahead time in Nebula and in the emulation preset or 0 latency limiting or both at the same time?
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby SWAN » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:55 pm

enriquesilveti wrote:
Generally most of the times, the faster the attack, the more unreliable it gets.
I just tested it again with real world scenarios like drums, bet even with slower speeds, you will have jumps of volumes. Just put Schope* on a drum channel, and see how the attack of the same exact sample will sometimes have +/- 2 dB of gain.


Did you try to add more look ahead time in Nebula and in the emulation preset or 0 latency limiting or both at the same time?


if this helps/stops the problem should it not be implemented into the program?
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:45 pm

SWAN wrote:if this helps/stops the problem should it not be implemented into the program?

This is a potential problem with the kind of wild west situation we have with the current "let's tweak the hell out of Nebula" mentality; you have, on one hand, people who don't really know all of the background tweaking various things in various programs, in the XML, and elsewhere; then we have people bringing problems, some of them as a result of the homebrew tweaking that has taken place, to the forums where G/E can only guess what condition the Nebula installation or program files might be in while people yell and complain about how their product is unprofessional or doesn't live up to full sonic quality or whatever the complaint of the day might be.

All of that, to me, further obfuscates whether or not programs are released in their "ideal" state; ideal for what Nebula setup, default? Tweaked TIMED setups? With no dedicated support personnel that makes for a somewhat unreasonable situation for A-A to support (though it would be a problem even with dedicated support personnel). Many other companies would have said a long time ago "You tweak it, you fix it" and/or hidden the Guru controls. But A-A keeps its users in the driver's seat; with great power comes great responsibility.

So I have to wonder...how many of the tests (whether listening or otherwise) being performed on Nebula compressors involve default Nebula setups with default programs? We should really start tweaking apples before we move on to wondering about oranges.
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