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Nebula Compressors

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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby biomuse » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:08 am

SWAN - see:

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... =viewtopic

You've got the general idea - Nebula isn't very good for substantial, predictable compression, and it does not handle transients well at all.

Ideally you want to use a clean, fast algo compressor, limiter or saturator in front of Neb, and the Neb compressors can then provide the color and personality.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby mpodrug » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:58 am

Thanks guys for the useful informations. I'm just wondering if anyone else favoring Signaltonoize's compressor libraries? I've got his 76 stripe and find it to be very very good. My real grief is the lack of GR meter, because my ears are not trained enough to do it by ears.

When you guys say nebulas compressors can't handle heavy slamming style, how much of gain reduction can it really take before it behaves weird?

Also, i remember i have read a monthly tip where you can edit a secret parameter (forgot the name), which allows nebula handle attacks down to 1ms. Shouldn't it make the fast attack limitation obsolete?

I've read somewhere about the weird behavior at the very first transient. What's that all about?

I hope those questions are not too noobish :)

A monthly tip dedicated to compressors, the libraries and how to make them work best, and which areas are still in work would be really nice.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby biomuse » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:18 am

The answers to all your questions are in Enrique's Understanding Compressors Tip of the Month thread, the link to which is itself in the thread I link to above.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby SWAN » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:11 am

Thanks Biomuse

some exerpts from Tips of the Month:

    In software compressors each incoming sample has a gain changement so they are accurate for all audio events including transients.

    Nebula processes blocks of samples because it tries to be accurate on frequency and harmonic content and switching kernels too much often will lead to other unwanted effects like ringing noise or fake sounds.

    How many blocks of samples? This is the PROG RATE value of the emulation preset shown in KERN page as RTE. The emulation preset rate is a parameter fixed by the library developer.

    Fast emulation preset rate means that the compressor will react in a faster way. If a emulation preset is loaded with rate of a single sample you have exactly the speedness of a common software compressor, but you can't have this working correctly in Nebula unless kernels are very short and as result Nebula will add artifacts, noise and aliasing.

    Slow emulation preset rate means that compressors will react in a slower way and as result less clipping issues, artifacts, troubles and aliasing but Nebula could start processing sound later, and transient could not be processed correctly.

    Latest compressor emulation program are based on RAWFUNS, attack and release times are sampled but with limited gain reduction range, around 30 dB are sampled, this limitation is related to the noise floor from the sampled gear.

    In order to get a similar behavior like software compressors you should try moderate threshold values, from -10 dB to -30 dB and if you need more gain reduction you can increase the gain in and decrease the gain out (depending the gain reduction and the make up values)...
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby SWAN » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:18 am

There is a few things I still dont understand:

From Nebula tip of the month:

    When a compressor is loaded with an emulation preset rate with a value more than 2 milliseconds, for example 20 milliseconds, Nebula will be late about 18.5 milliseconds due the look ahead setting and as result the transient could not be processed correctly (you hear something loud at the beginning because compression is not engaged yet).
The preset rate is 20ms...however there is a look ahead function - I assume is 1.5ms (?)...hence Nebula will be late at 18.5 ms?

The compressor program can only make a gain change every 20ms-that is quite a long time between gain change samples?
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby highvoltage » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:59 pm

Its not the amount of Gain reduction that matters. Its the program rate versus the actual tempo of the beats.
Nebula will hit and miss the Attack part, based on the program rate.

I have posted these images a few times already. This happens with all the compressors in nebula. The reason people say you should apply less reduction, because the artifacts wont be that prominent that way, and nebula will impart the characteristics.

Image

Image

You can see that each consecutive hit has different shape depending of the timing. You get some sort of interference between the prog rate and the tempo.
Maybe on smoother applications you wont notice anything, but on transient heavy material, it will be very inconsistent. Too bad, cause the vibe is there.

(Once I have noticed that at 125 Bpm and program rate of 2 all beats were perfectly shaped. Maybe that tempo matched the program rate. But its only when everyt beat is on the grid...)
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby ngarjuna » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:35 pm

mpodrug wrote:Thanks guys for the useful informations. I'm just wondering if anyone else favoring Signaltonoize's compressor libraries? I've got his 76 stripe and find it to be very very good. My real grief is the lack of GR meter, because my ears are not trained enough to do it by ears

I like the Stripe76 however it's less adjustable than the 76D set (76D has variable release, Stripe76 has 3 release settings). Also the Stripe76 is, I believe, a rebuild/clone of the revA silver face; and I think the silver face in the 76D is the revB. So from that perspective, it's not an either or, the Stripe76 is yet a different flavor of 1176 (I personally own and use both though I tend to go for revB over revA, which is how it would likely be if I had both of those classic units sitting in my rack).

People clamor for a more accurate GR meter but I don't see it as much help personally; you are dialing in an amount of compression to make something sound a certain way (otherwise why add the program in the first place). How much gain reduction is taking place based on a particular metering spec isn't really going to get you to that spot, listening and adjusting to the point where it sounds the way you wanted it to is. The whole reason to add a program to the chain is to get a certain sound; there's no meter in the world that can tell you when you're there.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby mpodrug » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:14 pm

Does nebula also behave not correctly with high bpm even with soft compression?

If so, then is Henry's approach to make just the 'mojo' programs the only way which makes sense?
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby Cupwise » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:39 pm

SWAN wrote:The compressor program can only make a gain change every 20ms-that is quite a long time between gain change samples?



that's uhh, well, i don't want to say 'wrong'. it is, but enrique was giving an example. he was saying 'if the program has a program rate of 20ms, then etc etc'.
the thing is, the compressor templates that devs use result in program rates of around 2ms by default. so that doesn't really apply. i think the common 'preamp' type programs have ~20ms program rates usually.
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Re: Nebula Compressors

Postby SWAN » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:43 pm

highvoltage wrote:Its not the amount of Gain reduction that matters. Its the program rate versus the actual tempo of the beats.
Nebula will hit and miss the Attack part, based on the program rate.

I have posted these images a few times already. This happens with all the compressors in nebula. The reason people say you should apply less reduction, because the artifacts wont be that prominent that way, and nebula will impart the characteristics.

Image

Image

You can see that each consecutive hit has different shape depending of the timing. You get some sort of interference between the prog rate and the tempo.
Maybe on smoother applications you wont notice anything, but on transient heavy material, it will be very inconsistent. Too bad, cause the vibe is there.

(Once I have noticed that at 125 Bpm and program rate of 2 all beats were perfectly shaped. Maybe that tempo matched the program rate. But its only when everyt beat is on the grid...)


thanks...interesting chart - is this the case with the newer compressor programs?

this for me is a bit of a problem...I had proposed to use Nebula compressors on transient heavy material - however - this timing on transients is not really ideal...as I understand - this is due to the timing between the transient and the prog rate...

I wonder how the CDSoundmaster drum compressor gets around this-seeing as its designed for transients...

Cupwise - ok what is the usual prog rate for compressor programs?
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