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VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby RE301 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:41 pm

The VNXT EMT140 is well-known for pushing a computer system to its limits & sometimes over the edge (!)..

Get everything more 'lean' in your session: suggest in your case to render your tracks (bounce in Logic) with all the plug in instances (not including VNXT) then do your summing mix with the rendered tracks, no other plugs & only one instance of Nebula(reverb) active with VNXT EMT140.....

(If you have other fx plugins being fed by channel sends you can render those too by assigning those to say output 3&4 and 'bounce' in Logic, then add to your session as a stereo audio file)
Last edited by RE301 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby RJHollins » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:43 pm

evaderod wrote:
georgerarnold@hotmail.com wrote:Sorry to bother you all again. I've finally made it to my studio and I'm been *trying* to mix a song. Over all I'm very happy with how nebula sounds but I can't believe how much cpu the vnxt 140 takes! I loaded an instance up on an aux in Logic and logic crashed like it's never crashed before and left me unable to open the project unless I unabled the Nebula reverb plugin in the AU manager.
I'm using some plugins in the project but not loads, there are only 3 tracks and they are all frozen. I've got 8gb of ram.
In the manual there are some suggestions to make it easier on the cpu but to me it sounds obviously not as good.
Anyone else come across this? Thanks.


Hi George,

The quality = 1 is for playback in realtime on most machines, the quality = 5 is a suggestion for offline rendering purposes that creates very high cpu load.
What i've been doing with my setup (i7 2600k 3.2 Ghz, 16 Gb ram) is to use the mast page tail turn down trick to mix with and then set to optimum before final rendering. These programs kill older computers. What is your setup? I only have experience with win7 so don't know about Mac.

Regards

Setting QUALITY to anything other than 1 is NOT recommended.

From <G> himself: [scroll to near end of page].
http://www.acustica-audio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=210&p=1751&hilit=quality%3D5#p1751
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby georgerarnold@hotmail.com » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:48 pm

RE301 wrote:The VNXT EMT140 is well-known for pushing a computer system to its limits & sometimes over the edge (!)..

Suggest in your case to render your tracks with all the plug in instances (not including VNXT) then do your summing mix with the rendered tracks & one instance of Nebula with VNXT EMT140..

(If you have other fx plugins being fed by channel sends you can render those too by assigning those to say output 3&4 and 'bounce' in Logic, then add to your session as a stereo audio file)


Yes this is the work around I have thought of but it really slows down my work flow. I was hoping there was something I've missed but it appears not. Thanks for all these answers. One day I'll win the lottery and have a super computer where everything works!
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby georgerarnold@hotmail.com » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:53 pm

I've managed to get the number of plugins down to 23 (4 of which are nebula). no reverb. When I I open the project I get a warning saying memory is running low. I still think this is odd, just 4 nebulas, none of which are reverbs and it takes all my memory. Does memory get old or go bad or need replacing after a while? Surely not?
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby RE301 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:07 pm

The rendering / bouncing is kind of the price to pay for using Nebula.. at least until Cray supercomputers or quantum computers become affordable for us mere mortals...

On the other hand - the 'bouncing' / rendering way of working was standard procedure in ye olden days of analogue recording, until the advent of widespread 8/16/24+ track recorders, when you consider that sounds would get printed to tape as they were, even with fx / reverb chamber etc...



And...going off on a tangent that doesn't help much - but still food for thought :) I recently read an interview with Gold Star (classic LA studio in the 60's) house engineer Larry Levine describing working with Phil Spector on his 60's 'wall of sound' recordings - the music would go down on tape (3 track recorder) on 2 x mono tracks in a final mix state, with one track free for vocals to be added later, and one of the mono music tracks sometimes getting sacrificed for strings or some other kind of overdub..


++++++++++++++++++++++++

(paid article) http://tapeop.com/interviews/45/larry-levine/

When you would work in 3-track set up, doing the whole band live, how many tracks was that going to at once?

It would end up on one of the tracks. What would happen is, because Phil liked to hear the monitors really coming on at you, in order to get more volume I would record on two tracks at once, mono, they were both mono, and then after that was complete and we were gonna put something else on the track, I would just erase that track and put voices or whatever was gonna be on it. And then the third would be the strings or something.


Free article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr07/ ... s_0407.htm
Last edited by RE301 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby RE301 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:10 pm

georgerarnold@hotmail.com wrote:I've managed to get the number of plugins down to 23 (4 of which are nebula). no reverb. When I I open the project I get a warning saying memory is running low. I still think this is odd, just 4 nebulas, none of which are reverbs and it takes all my memory. Does memory get old or go bad or need replacing after a while? Surely not?


Sounds like there's still too many plugin instances, in particular Nebula for your system to handle
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby mathias » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:43 pm

georgerarnold@hotmail.com wrote:I've managed to get the number of plugins down to 23 (4 of which are nebula). no reverb. When I I open the project I get a warning saying memory is running low. I still think this is odd, just 4 nebulas, none of which are reverbs and it takes all my memory. Does memory get old or go bad or need replacing after a while? Surely not?


your memory seems to be sufficient, so there may be some other things limiting. you are using a pretty old version of osx, so the limiting factor may be in there. maybe the old logic is working in 32bit and has limitations in using all ram that is available? just some thoughts ...
you have two options: 1) get a recent os/computer, that uses the resources better 2) freeze all tracks with effects that are cpu heavy, until you have only a few calculated in realtime

that's the price for using nebula, sorry ;)
many think the outcome soundwise is worth the hassle, many turn it down because of that. you have to decide ... :)
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox, tracktion6, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby georgerarnold@hotmail.com » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:49 pm

Thanks. Yes I've already frozen all the audio tracks, it's just the aux tracks that you can't freeze.
For the price of a new MacBook Pro I could buy a real emt plate reverb. Hopefully time will help me find an answer.
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby david1103 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:13 pm

I love this reverb!

1. You could take an impulse from the VNXT EMT reverb and use it in a zero latency convolution plugin as a 'draft' mode. Swap back Nebula at the end for mixdown for 3d sound goodness.

2. Reaper has a new 'sub project' feature that is like a 'mega freeze'. Here it is in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_8Ir9gzEB0&t=6m13s
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Re: VNXT EMT Sound Bad?....

Postby RE301 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:40 pm

Maybe check out the Cupwise custom plate?
http://www.cupwise.com/fx/shop/custom-plate/

Different from the VXNT but still has a plate character.

RE: the VNXT EMT 140 - I have used a real EMT 140 (in good condition / well-tuned) and I would have to say the VNXT comes spookily close to sounding like an actual physical unit, easily 90%, maybe more ...in a finished mix, would an average listener be able to tell? Unlikely..

The original EMT 140's were hugely expensive in the day they were the only game in town. EMT had a patent on the idea as well which prevented competition.. when the patent ran out in the late 70's units like the Ecoplate (at nearly $20,000 new, in the equivalent of today's money - still a 'bargain' compared to the EMT!), the Lawson plate came along...people also made and still do make DIY plates, like German producer Conny Plank (Kraftwerk etc) - whose plate sounded quite decent..

If you ever should pick up a hardware EMT 140 note that they are super heavy, like a piano & require about 4 people to move it :-0 ..also the tensioning of the springs holding the plate is key, they need to be tightened (I believe) close to the point of breakage...a trick of some studios back in ye olde day (such as Chess) to increase tension & obtain a brighter, shimmering sound was keep the EMT140 room chilled with airco.... in the time when the EMT 140 was the dominant pro outboard reverb, people especially in locations with multiple units, noticed there would be one standout that sounded much better than the rest - presumably due to a combination of tuning & the metal itself.

Long ago when I had a studio, I actually bought an EMT 140 cheap (the equivalent of +- 200 GBP) at the time they were unwanted, unappreciated and people wanted to get rid of them - mine turned out to be kind of a boat anchor as the transducer was broken & I never got around to getting it up and running.. using an EMT240 instead..meanwhile the EMT140 remained neglected in a barn with barn cats peeing on it...

Love the EMT 140 sound though.. VNXT gets you close for a lot less $ and chiropractor bills..
Last edited by RE301 on Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
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