Login

Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby Cupwise » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:31 pm

I've seen a few people requesting simpler channel type HP/LP filters here lately, and these fit the bill! The unit sampled has some nice color, which has been captured well with high-end converters and cables. I took a different approach to the sampling to produce channel filter programs not quite like any others.

There is an LP-only program, and an HP-only program. These were sampled with the unit set up to trigger more harmonics, but you can send the input into the programs at a lower level (easily adjustable with 'trim'), for a clean output also.

Then there is a combo program with both HP and LP together, which was sampled with a setup that produced cleaner all-around results.

So you basically have two slightly different versions of each filter (one in its 'solo' program, and the other in the combo program). The 'different approach' I mentioned earlier is that I sampled these with dynamics. As far as I know I'm the only one doing this so far (also did it with the stuff in my Frequency Tweakers sets). It takes lots of extra work to sample this way, but the end result is that you don't need another Nebula instance with a 'bypass' or 'amps only' program loaded to get the dynamic response of the unit. It may also be slightly more accurate since the dynamic behavior (which could change depending on the filter positions) is captured directly, for all combinations of filter settings. There are some trade-offs, such as a little more CPU is needed to run these. It's also not always possible/practical, but these types of filters were a perfect candidate.

Go check out the audio demos!
http://www.cupwise.com/cup/yourei-hplp-filters/

PS- these can give a kind of grit that could be very useful with sample-based stuff, and you can get that even with little to no filtering, but you can also get clean results that could be useful anywhere. sometimes it sounds like what is being filtered out just wasn't there to begin with.
Last edited by Cupwise on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby mr.tele » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:32 pm

Bought! One can't have too many filters, can one? :D
mr.tele
User Level X
User Level X
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:51 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby david1103 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:30 pm

NICE! i just bought them too... downloading now :D

My first purchase from cupwise. I am looking forward to hearing the dynamic sampling of the filter and what that adds.

A good price, both 44.1 and 96 together worked out about £5 total. That is a price i can spend without thinking too hard, any more and i have to think twice.

Very smooth payment and delivery, was downloading 5 seconds after paypal payment at about 700 KB/sec :P

Keep up the great work!
User avatar
david1103
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:26 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby piperboy » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:15 pm

Check out the tremolo presets he made... and read how he made 'em!
piperboy
User Level VIII
User Level VIII
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:12 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby Cupwise » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:47 pm

david1103 wrote:Very smooth payment and delivery, was downloading 5 seconds after paypal payment at about 700 KB/sec :P


glad to hear that. i've racked my brains a few times trying to figure out how to get 'paypal express for digital goods' set up, which would provide a bit of an even smoother checkout by having it all take place at my site. but it's just beyond my capability (i know very little about website stuff), at least, without having to buy a wordpress plug-in (which i don't want to do).
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby david1103 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:22 pm

ok, i have been playing with this for an hour or so.

conclusion AMAZING!

it is by far the best filter i have heard on nebula!

all other filters have suffered from interpolation errors (inc the very latest from a well known gentleman)

what i mean is that the filter curve has deformed as you sweep between the sampled points. this has led to some frequency values sounding like crap. i checked the high and low pass of YouRei with pink noise and NAT analyzer, and can't find a trace of this!

maybe i am the only one geek enough to measure this stuff!

cupwise, how was this possible? i am wondering if:

a) the unit is stepped with very small steps and you sampled them all
b) there is no interpolation and you just sampled a million steps
c) some new technique

even if the interpolation is near perfect, could you supply versions of the programs that are stepped and don't have any interpolation? this would be PERFECTION for those who don't want to sweep.

2nd point, the fact that it is dynamic makes it sound super alive and analogue.

3rd point. all the kernal values are the same length for TIMED and FREQD for those who have modded the XML. this means you can just flip between them in an instant... perfect.

the actual sound of the unit i am still coming to appreciate. i thought it was a bit lo-fi to start, but drive can make it reasonably transparent.

I will consider using this as my default HPF on all tracks. It does have its own sound that will not suit everything, but its choice of filter slopes and frequency values are just perfect. It just sounds so much like something real is getting added to your signal.

I think this is going to be amazing for electronic music :D

enough of my opinions, look forward to hearing what others think.
User avatar
david1103
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:26 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby Cupwise » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:04 am

wow, lot's of stuff i'd like to respond to in there!
david1103 wrote:ok, i have been playing with this for an hour or so.
conclusion AMAZING!
it is by far the best filter i have heard on nebula!
:)
david1103 wrote:what i mean is that the filter curve has deformed as you sweep between the sampled points. i checked the high and low pass of YouRei with pink noise and NAT analyzer, and can't find a trace of this!

cupwise, how was this possible? i am wondering if:

a) the unit is stepped with very small steps and you sampled them all
b) there is no interpolation and you just sampled a million steps
c) some new technique

well, there is no stepping on the unit. there will always be interpolation if you want a smooth filter like this without stepping, i mean, unless like you said, someone were to sample a 'million' steps. i don't know that it would actually take a million, but it would take A LOT, and that's without dynamics. WITH dynamics, you have to multiply each position sampled by the # of dynamic steps to get total sample count (then ALSO factor in harmonic kernels).

one thing, with a filter of this type where there is no resonant peak, the interpolation can work a bit better (meaning overall, less samples required for smooth transition), but with a resonant peak you need more. the LP filter i did in frequency tweakers A, there are a few places where if you really slowly sweep through the range at full res, while looking at an analyzer, you would see less than ideal interpolation. it isn't horrible or a deal breaker and i still think that filter has a really smooth sweepable ability/sound which i think is demonstrated in the audio demo i did for that. but these 'yourei' filters are simpler and i think interpolation works very well with them. interpolation is just something that has to be accepted with Nebula, and i think as long as something is sampled well, it won't be a detriment to the end result. and in some cases you can get some new results using interpolation, that wouldn't be possible on the hardware... but, for example, even the most simple 'preamp' and 'console' programs have interpolation for their dynamic steps (and they still sound great).
david1103 wrote:even if the interpolation is near perfect, could you supply versions of the programs that are stepped and don't have any interpolation? this would be PERFECTION for those who don't want to sweep.

well, i'll have to consider this. what it would come down to is how much work it takes for me to do it. problem is i've never been able to figure out 'switch' mode yet, and i can see myself sitting here looking at my monitor for hours trying to figure it out. i love doing things like this, throwing out updates/alternate presets etc, but it's really only worth it if people show interest. plus, i personally have doubts about how noticeable any improvement in sound would be if that interpolation were taken away, especially when as i pointed out, there would STILL be interpolation with the dynamic samples. just embrace the interpolation, man! ;) it's the nebula way. also i'm about to start sampling the notch filter which i'm a bit worried about because the notch on this thing is so incredibly narrow, i know it will take TONS of samples and lots of time. so if i do do anything else with these HP/LP filters, it will be a while.
david1103 wrote:2nd point, the fact that it is dynamic makes it sound super alive and analogue.
great! this is kind of an experimental thing. i myself didn't really know if it would give much benefit to the end result. the notch/peak filter will HAVE to be without dynamics because it's just going to take so many samples, but i'll do the traditional method of including 'bypass' dynamic samples of the unit with the notch release (which could be a ways off...).
david1103 wrote:3rd point. all the kernal values are the same length for TIMED and FREQD for those who have modded the XML. this means you can just flip between them in an instant... perfect.

yeah, i did this on purpose (wondered if anyone would ever notice). i have some patches i made up for this purpose that i'm going to try to remember to apply to all of my stuff before release. it's because of a thread i saw in the 'working with neb' forum, some people over there figured some stuff out and got me turned on to switching to timed mode before render. anyway, keep in mind that the rule seems to be (as someone in that thread discovered), you can only move the 'clean' kernel and either 'even' OR 'odd', but not both, or you run the risk of getting artifacts.
david1103 wrote:the actual sound of the unit i am still coming to appreciate. i thought it was a bit lo-fi to start, but drive can make it reasonably transparent.
yeah, well with the 'solo' LP/HP filter programs, i added maybe a ~16db range that was 'saturating' the unit, on top of a range of i can't recall how many db below that, which is fairly clean. i wanted to make sure to get both 'gritty'/lo-fi AND clean possibilities in those. the combo one, it's pretty much totally clean, and if you look at kern lengths in that, the even kern lengths are 2ms which is extremely short. this is because i go through with large programs like this (the 6k version of that one is several thousand samples...) and try to trim out any data that is empty or useless, to give the most efficient end program. those even kernels for that combo program basically were just barely there, and believe it or not they WERE gone (below the noise floor) by 2ms. so, because of input levels and different settings with input sensitivity/transformer switches on the unit, the 'solo' and 'combo' programs should give slightly different results.

anyway, i'm glad you liked it!
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby prosodio » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:09 pm

Hi, I have a lot of great filters (stepped most of them) from alexb or cdsoundmaster (1073,1081, isa115) and I use them without any harm to the sound, even more, they sound fu...ing great!!! Said that, I´ll buy from cupwise since I´ve got most of his libraries and they are amongst my main tools for mixing. As I said I don´t use interpolated filters, but the stepped ones are wonderful.

Greetings
prosodio
User Level X
User Level X
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:55 pm

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby Cupwise » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:59 am

i'll agree that there can be cases where interpolation could produce 'less than realistic' results, but i don't quite agree with then general 'anti-interpolation' sentiment that some people have. i mean, interpolation is basically one of the KEY differences between Nebula and the basic convolution that came before it. it's what allowed Nebula to make dynamic captures, and it's in every dynamic effect. if you like console or preamp or tape sims that you have with Nebula, then you like the sound of Nebula's interpolation. if i were to strip the interpolation out of these programs to make them 'stepped', then i might as well also strip the dynamics out of them also, because like i said, there would still be interpolation with the dynamics.
that said... maybe i'll actually do that. for one thing, the dynamics add a bit of a CPU hit, and i had thought about releasing a 'lite' version that would exclude the dynamics.


it's a possibility i'll add some of these alternate possibilities but i won't promise and can't say when. more people discuss/request it that might spur me to do it sooner. i'm sampling the notch filters from the unit already and it will take a while.
Last edited by Cupwise on Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Cupwise release- YouRei HP/LP filters

Postby Cupwise » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:28 am

i just thought about it and i think i might see where you guys are coming from. a lot of the filters from consoles are stepped on the hardware, and have fairly large distances between the cutoff points. like on a 1073 module you have 50hz, 80, 160, and 300 as fixed selectable positions. yeah, definitely if you interpolated between those in a nebula program, selecting a point right in the middle, say 120hz, would give you a filter shape that was totally uncharacteristic of the unit.

but this unit is fully variable. with the high pass, i believe i have a sample about every 10hz(or so). the low pass is also fully variable but of course the distance in Hz between each sampled point is going to be much greater, but you're talking about a log scale, so in the end it has about the same resolution. so that's why the interpolation here is so smooth, you get the same shape of the filter all across the sweep.

now to be totally honest, the same level of resolution is NOT in the 'combo' program for the high pass (low pass is equal in resolution to the solo low pass filter), and you can maybe see that a little if you sweep its high pass filter around and look real close at an analyzer. so it would be more of a candidate for a 'stepped' release.

point of the story is that there are much more sampled freq. points here than in a typical console high pass or low pass where you have 4 or 5 selectable points.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Next

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests