Login

Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby jazzhobby » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:14 am

Barendse and vicneste,

greetings and thanks for the advice...i will check those free plugs out tomorrow. i foolishly assumed a library called "preamp color suite" would impart some true color on the tone.

more experimenting yielded the same crappy results. adjusted CNV, sample buffer, reinstalled nebula and the library, etc. read all the literature...i dont think a setting is gonna yield anything magical at this point.

I will probably give a few more days if anyone has any more suggestions in the meantime. Anyone else using his successfully?
jazzhobby
User Level I
User Level I
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:17 pm

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby faun2500 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:28 am

"Have also flushed temp folder. The fact that stock presets work so effectively makes wonder if this library is actually on the bogus side sonically since I am indeed getting low level nulls."

I use the Preamp bundle extensively on every single software synth I use (sometimes 10-20 or more in a song) and although I have pretty good monitors (Acoustic Energy) I can hear the difference in the preamps best on headphones.

I can hear the 3D magic they impart on the source and some programs add a 'deepness' & 'Warmth' some (like the aforementioned fairchild) actually change the frequency curve of the source without using EQ (hi boost). Some give a low cut etc...

If you test these programs with white noise and a frequency analyzer you can also 'see' the changes to the frequency.

I can assure you the library is not 'bogus' at all.

Another example: Using some programs on a synth sub bass you can actually hear the added harmonics making the sound more 'full' above the fundamental frequency, kind of like the 'waves ren bass' plugin.

If your getting nothing, something with your setup is not right but don't write the library off just yet because it can be very useful.

:)
Forthcoming releases on: Black Heart Label, Hyperdrive and Transfixion. http://soundcloud.com/100mg. 6 FREE Downloads on my soundcloud page. Nebula ALL over these trax!
faun2500
Vip Member
Vip Member
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby dpclarkson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:38 am

ultimately my main concern is that alex emailed me personally saying the sonic differences are "huge" in his own words...


I think he means it's a huge difference from his perspective.
Using a only preamp program on a source doesn't really change
or color the signal, it adds a little distortion and a subtle curve.
When I use, for instance, a SC1081 pre and full equalizer in a chain,
as in a real world situation, the color is getting more audible.
Add up an R2R and TB+ program in that same chain, the results
are surely audible.
To me, null tests are a complete waste of time, and adding nothing
to a well written song.
But then again, there are those who mix technically and those who
mix musically, no offence. :mrgreen:
dpclarkson
Member
Member
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby vicnestE » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:00 pm

I found the PCS useful too.
I mainly use the programs to imprint better or slightly different preamp sounds for my recorded stuff.

Love "PCS VocBocs" on vocals.

Real hardware could easily go to insane input level and clipping/overdrive the signal. And the sound could be easily distuinguished from the sound of normal preamp input level. I guess there's no much crazy input level programs in Nebula library due to the Kernel limitation.

By the way the "Cupwise Tube FM3 - Vintage Reverb", some of the reverbs could go into red driven sound. Quite interesting.
User avatar
vicnestE
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 740
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:11 am

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby dpclarkson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:01 pm

If you're looking for color, you should check
out the Vintage Tube Collection and Tubebender
from CDSM.
dpclarkson
Member
Member
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby RJHollins » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:51 pm

Hi jazzhobby ...

I've not seen posted what version of Nebula you are running.
2nd ... what is your RateCNV setting.

3rd ... you mentioned issues installing the library ... that should not happen. Did you re-download the library again, and the installer worked?
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
RJHollins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2627
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:53 pm

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby jazzhobby » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 pm

RJ,

thank you for the reply.

I'm using nebula 3 pro. the newest version .95 (not the experimental .98)

I've tried CNV rates from the default 500 up to 4500. The NEB engine under guru settings defaulted to 500, but i tried 3500 as suggested an raised the setting in various intervals of 500.

my latency is ranging between 128 (Neb Core) and 512 (Neb Rev)...i tried raising those as well, which obviously wouldnt be expected to address my problem.

I had a problem with the "library installer" app that is included in and Alex libraries...i think it was more me assuming that it functioned to install all the presets in one swoop, rather than having to extract vectors and programs to the Neb repository...which is what i ended up doing via Jzip. Any thoughts?

Importantly, all the presets that came with NebulaPRO are working properly. I do get some freezes on some of the hall reverbs, but that seems to be a CPU thing. Also, I did notice when i reinstalled the program, some presets disappeared that had come with the trial Neb3free (example "warm buss", which i had auditioned before purchasing the pro package). I had done the install of Neb3 free before installing the first install of NebPRO, but assume that some of the program files stayed after install since they had subsequently existed in NebPro. The most recent time i installed i erased everything except my .ser file and redid the whole process...again everything seems to work fine but now some of the NebFREE presets are not there which i guess is expected.

There aren't any real audio samples or differences to to compare to on AlexB site.

As far as "musicality" and null tests, of course i am using scientific method to see what my perceptions are not hearing. Null tests don't add to great sounding music, but neither do non-function plug-ins 8-) This is the only way to verify AlexB claims since there are no audio samples whatsoever.

As per dpclarkson no offense taken. "Using a only preamp program on a source doesn't really change or color the signal, it adds a little distortion and a subtle curve", I agree to some extent in some instances, but this libary is called Preamp Color Suite. It is marketed as imparting color of distinct preamps. I know the differences between aTelefunken, A****n and Fatso in real life..this does not capture it. I am very realistic and have experienced many emulations and mix both musically and technically. It is the most balanced professional way despite my "jazzhobby" status.

Perhaps someone would be willing to post audio samples of before/after using PCS on a simple dry track. I will do likewise so there can be comparisons and real shared analysis. Or even something musical that someone has recorded already? Thanks to everyone.

Yes thank you everyone i will not beat this dead horse much longer!

(I have i5 running W7 64bit Sonar X1 8gb RAM)
jazzhobby
User Level I
User Level I
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:17 pm

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby Cupwise » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:51 pm

i'm still assuming that somehow something is going wrong here because the null tests shouldn't null the sound out completely, even with a pre. if you don't already have it, you should get:
http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/measurement-programs/

that program is fairly standard among nebula users. load nebula in it, load the programs, and you should get an idea of what to listen for with each program. granted, high end preamps are designed to be fairly transparent, so with that set you are going to have a lot of flat frequency response curves. but, there are still the harmonics, and i think a lot of times the phase response is responsible for some of the 'magic'. then there is the dynamic behavior of all of those things which vstanalyser isn't so great for but the point is, that even with a flat-ish freq response there are still plenty of other elements that combine to create a 'color'.

also, the preamp style programs are generally considered to be more subtle, and so they are usually used with several instances across a mix. a lot of people process each element of a mix with either preamp or console programs before they even start mixing, then they might send different groups through another round of programs, and lastly another on the master bus (and maybe use more than one program at any of those stages). so it's generally felt that the effect gets more noticeable when you use several passes (like what would happen in the real world, using actual hardware). the idea is to compare a complete mix where that procedure was used, to a mix where the programs weren't used.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby biomuse » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:36 pm

dpclarkson wrote:If you're looking for color, you should check
out the Vintage Tube Collection and Tubebender
from CDSM.


Agreed, those tend to more of a harmonic-rich, obvious tube thickness that it sounds like you're looking for (and that is killer for mid range sweetening in small amounts btw).

PCS is definitely at the subtle end of what is capturable by Nebula, and I have to agree that it might be better as a $15 library, but look at the bright side: it gets you discounts on any future AlexB purchase. The effects of his EQs and consoles are neither subtle nor debatable when used as intended - and there are sound examples galore. Do a search on the console discussions; someone did a complete wav file comparison of a track excerpt mixed with all of the consoles that you can drop into your DAW and ABCD.
biomuse
User Level X
User Level X
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:37 am

Re: Questions About AlexB PCS presets NULL testing.

Postby giancarlo » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:47 am

null test means nothing. A static eq featuring deep frequency and harmonic distortion effect will null. A transparent dynamic pre featuring a flat response and a clean h1 kernel will maybe not null.... so?
User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
 
Posts: 9173
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

PreviousNext

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests