Login

0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby faun2500 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:42 pm

Nice clips.

0db has the ringing sound when the program is too pushed to much.

I don't get that so I'm doing it OK. :)
Forthcoming releases on: Black Heart Label, Hyperdrive and Transfixion. http://soundcloud.com/100mg. 6 FREE Downloads on my soundcloud page. Nebula ALL over these trax!
faun2500
Vip Member
Vip Member
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby yr » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:21 pm

faun2500 wrote:Nice clips.


...from a nice library- didn't make them (only added distortion ;) )
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Finnish » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:02 am

faun2500 wrote:Nice clips.

0db has the ringing sound when the program is too pushed to much.

I don't get that so I'm doing it OK. :)


Goddamit...

Is that the ringing sound that I'm getting? I've upped the input pad and lowered the output pad and Nebula is still showing max -11db input signal but I get this weird "clong, cling" sound when the signal is loudest but still howering around -11db according to Nebula.

By the way, now I've finally got the idea of tape sound with R2R, the fattening and rounding is just beautiful...
Finnish
User Level IV
User Level IV
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby faun2500 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:08 am

I've never touched any 'Pad' settings but if you listen in headphones and hear the ringing/metallic/sample rate convertor type sound then try lowing the input volume and raising the output (to compensate) until it goes away.
Forthcoming releases on: Black Heart Label, Hyperdrive and Transfixion. http://soundcloud.com/100mg. 6 FREE Downloads on my soundcloud page. Nebula ALL over these trax!
faun2500
Vip Member
Vip Member
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby yewtreemagic » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:14 pm

In my experience many (if not most) programs are happy as long as you leave a dB or two below 0dBFS, but once they hit 0dBFS some do ring nastily at a few kHz (with plenty of preamps for instance you can just see the ringing peak start to appear as a tiny 'blip' above the frequency response as you pass 0dBFS).

Others really do prefer to have plenty of headroom (average level 0VU=-18dBFS and preferably with peaks at least -6dBFS).

Ultimately you have to experiment a bit to find the nicest 'drive' levels for each program, especially since the hardware they capture could well be designed to be used with plenty of headroom for cleanest results.

On the other hand, many of us like to push programs to get more 'colour' out of them - the ringing is nasty, but otherwise a bit more grit can be nice ;)


Martin
Martin Walker
YewTreeMagic
User avatar
yewtreemagic
User Level V
User Level V
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:12 pm
Location: North Cornwall, UK

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Finnish » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:19 pm

But R2R is designed for signals near 0dbfs for best/most colored results? My signals are about -11db and I'm still getting ringing?
Finnish
User Level IV
User Level IV
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Cupwise » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:35 pm

just my 2 cents/thoughts/opinions on this:

a)i think any nebula program gives you strange results if you keep increasing gain, even if you compensate output. it has nothing to do with clipping, it's just the fact that you are pushing nebula beyond the point where any actual samples exist for it to use. the result is just a weird byproduct of 'nebula the program' being pushed too far. so it is a digital (and usually nasty) effect that you hear at that point, but also still has some warped characters of analog in there. you can't expect nebula to recreate something that isn't there.

b)with tapes in particular, depending on the program, tape deck, and SPEED of the tape, you can get strange results with BASS heavy signals. just like with the compressor programs, you can't expect to slam a bass heavy track into a tape program. maybe sometimes you get an ok result, and it depends on the program, deck, and tape speed at sampling.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby yr » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:51 pm

I'm now wondering if it's possible to implement an hybrid dynamic/static program. A preset which changes it's behavior depending on whether the audio reaches a certain threshold. If it exists, it could help creating programs that are more difficult to abuse and also very useful for material with huge dynamic range.
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Cupwise » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:46 pm

seems like something like that would be possible, like maybe once 0dbfs is reached it just sort of 'freezes' the behavior so that it doesn't get any more distortion/compression etc. i think that's what you mean when you mention static? it quits adjusting the results after that highest sample is surpassed, and becomes 'static' based on that highest sample?

only thing is, that would still be odd sounding because up to that point everything would be a natural sounding non-linear behavior, then a frozen effect above that.. you could argue that that would be better than what we have now, but maybe what we have now encourages you to work within the limits of what was sampled, and the alternative you suggest would result in more people driving the programs too hard, and not noticing that they were...

interesting thought though.
Cupwise
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:03 am

Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby yr » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:11 pm

Yes I can imagine it will get abused too. My reason for suggesting it is different though- processing material that has a huge dynamic range. Right now you would need to use Nebula tapes (and other presets) at very low levels, were they don't necessarily shine. Regardless of how realistic it is (it's not), it might be cool to have this kind of "freeze" behavior kick in only when a set threshold (say -8 or -4db is reached). I think in such cases we're talking about very short peaks in general, so the danger it will sound odd because it's static is very small.

What I've also noticed with some tape programs is, that if you match the manufacturer THD for the reference tone, you often don't have the same headroom you could expect from the analog machine for the peaks/overs (often +14 above nominal level). That forces me to use the tapes at a lower level then I would like to.
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

PreviousNext

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests