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0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

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0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby tcandy_89@hotmail.com » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:03 pm

Recording more around -18dbFS myself, im finding myself cranking the input right up and backing off the output in a effort for more real world effect. However, I cant help but think Im doing the wrong thing. Still trying to get my head across the whole level approach with r2r as a new user..
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Finnish » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:17 pm

I'm still wondering the exact same question...
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:26 pm

It's a matter of how much or little of that tape sound you want. For more, you can drive the input harder (as you've been doing, compensating for the gain by decreasing the output); you can also add instances of TB+. R2R, unlike many of the programs calibrated for 0VU = -18dBFS, will not flake out when it gets a couple dB above -18 so you can keep driving it if that's giving you the result you're looking for.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby tcandy_89@hotmail.com » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:16 am

I do use TB Ngarjuna, but it dosent seen to add any level per se, just percieved volume/harmonics...sounds bloody awesome by the way....

I night try running a gain plug before and after nebula.

Anyway, I must say that with my levels Im surprised at just how much tape effect there is along with TB,without cranking the input at all. I expected to have to really jack the levels to take full advantage.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby RJHollins » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:08 pm

regarding 'levels'.

Keep in mind that IF your Nebula meters are set to RMS [EVF17], levels at -18dB [which is then displaying your AVE level in RMS ... that your PEAK levels can/will be higher [say -6 or -4dB].

For example: When we would calibrate all the tape machines ... The console oscillator would be set with a 1k sine tone to 0dB on the analogue VU meters. The 2" - 24 trk AND the 1/2" - 2trk would have there input levels matching 0dB on THEIR VU meters ... however, the DIGITAL decks and DAW's would have their inputs levels set to -18dB on their meters.

IMPORTANTLY ... these mentioned levels began in the early days of 16 bit digital, whereby the 'practice of the day' was to hit as HOT as possible WITHOUT clipping.

In todays 24 or 32bit format, the 'headroom' is greatly increased.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Mplay » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:34 am

I've made extra copies which have increased pad-in (and decreased the pad-out to compensate). You can find this in menu EDIT > GLOB. If you then go to MAST page and rename the preset(right-click on the name, and you will be able to type), you can save it as a new preset.

To me it seems that it does matter at what level you hit the r2r programs. To my ears they do have a sweet spot
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Fons » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:36 pm

i got the best effects with the r2r library with values around +1 for the input level and as much as -29 for the drive level!
I set these levels with my eyes closed and listen specificly for frequency colloration and space, at some points my my mix seem to open up alot, and this is always around these values.
i use moslty the studer 15_30b preset for this.

The input level has a clear effect to me, although its hard not to fool yourself by the added vlolume while adjusting the input. so i recommand closing your eyes and listen for nothing spcific just noticing other changes than volume. this needs some practice, but when you can do it, it works wonders. (although automatic gain compensation would be much better :)
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby Fons » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:37 pm

Mplay wrote:I've made extra copies which have increased pad-in (and decreased the pad-out to compensate). You can find this in menu EDIT > GLOB. If you then go to MAST page and rename the preset(right-click on the name, and you will be able to type), you can save it as a new preset.

To me it seems that it does matter at what level you hit the r2r programs. To my ears they do have a sweet spot

i agree.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby tcandy_89@hotmail.com » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:45 pm

Ok, after much study my feeble mind is still a bit unsure. How about this analogy...

To get the best and truest lifelike tape representation...

Its a good idea to gain my signal UP to close to 0dbFS (from my normal -18dbFS RMS level) before hitting r2r, and then I can reduce it coming out of the r2r instance to get back to where I like to be, typically -18dbFS RMS....no matter if im using a 0db, -10db , -30db or whatever program..

True or false, correct or incorrect??? THANKS again all!
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Postby yr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:42 pm

You have a few options:

- use Mplay's suggestions a few posts earlier and create your own R2R presets.

- use R2R in combination with the TB+ library. Following the Otari/Studer with one of the medium TB presets should give you realistic distortion levels (more or less) while keeping to the 0db VU= -18dBFS standard.

- use a copy of FreeG before and after R2R to simulate realistic distortion levels. Make sure your peak levels stay below 0dBFS (input and output) to prevent clipping. You will have to experiment to find out what sounds best to you...
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