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CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby vicnestE » Tue May 18, 2010 3:00 am

I like the idea of using console programs as colorization, but consider the purpose of using console programs as glue, is it essential to run through the same console to keep the integrity??

Analog summing is great but with so much console to play around, it would be nice to know what analog consoles actually influence the tracks to achieve the glued musical sound in technical view.
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby RJHollins » Tue May 18, 2010 3:41 am

vicnestE wrote:I like the idea of using console programs as colorization, but consider the purpose of using console programs as glue, is it essential to run through the same console to keep the integrity??

Analog summing is great but with so much console to play around, it would be nice to know what analog consoles actually influence the tracks to achieve the glued musical sound in technical view.


I imagine we could stretch the meaning of 'glue', to describe the a sonic characteristic of a particular console. I think in order to do that, the entire signal flow [through all console sections] would need to be considered.
Without doubt, the console libraries show that each board has a unique sonic 'personality'. And THIS may be the underlying conditioner that can bring a 'uniformity' or a musical 'blending' of tones that contribute to a perception of coherency [or glue].
Beside the overall spectral response [which we would more than likely prefer to be flat from DC to white light], the harmonic 'flavoring' [or distortion] can enhance in a very pleasant way.
Like all tools ... taking time to study and experiment is very important. After my spending many years behind N**e's, S*L's, H*******, etc ... it is more of a deja-vu now sitting in front of a computer monitor. But with one BIG difference ... without changing chairs, we can now slip into a whole new console, along with pulling up racks of EQ's and processors without putting in a request form :)

Mixing and matching tracks that had been recorded at various studios [specifically for the room and equipment they had] has been a normal procedure.

The real challenge [if I may] would be learning the tools so that you can make musical as well as technical decisions to obtain the Producers intent.
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby farjedi » Tue May 18, 2010 11:04 am

I think experimentation is the key, if you have other consoles, simply try it. There is another thread, I believe the Globe console one, where someone rendered a mix through the GLobe and MBC pro. They state they liked certain things through the GLobe more and some things through the MBC, and then concluded I liked more through MBC so I'll go for that. It got me thinking, why just choose one? Surely the most benefitial thing for your mix is to chose which one worked best, regardless of feeling like you have to create a perfect rendition of one particular console.
To my ears, sometimes I feel that adding the masterbuss of a console is too much, and it begins to take away the individuality of sounds, the seperation..too much glue perhaps. But I've found trying a masterbuss from another console will benefit, making it wider, silkier, but also retaining the instruments own identity in the mix..
It's all very subtle stuff, in truth, and if nothing else Nebula is training our ears to detect these subtle differences.
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby ngarjuna » Tue May 18, 2010 2:59 pm

farjedi wrote:...There is another thread, I believe the Globe console one, where someone rendered a mix through the GLobe and MBC pro. They state they liked certain things through the GLobe more and some things through the MBC, and then concluded I liked more through MBC so I'll go for that. It got me thinking, why just choose one? Surely the most benefitial thing for your mix is to chose which one worked best, regardless of feeling like you have to create a perfect rendition of one particular console.


In that particular case, the advantage of using one console or the other is that the buss stems are all rendered out and ready to go. In order to hybridize I'd have to redo a lot of stems. But I agree, a hybrid approach can potentially yield superior results to pure emulation.
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby Raynorshyn » Tue May 18, 2010 3:34 pm

I now have whole songs in stem form, rendered 2 or three different ways: MWC, GLD GLM. Once thats out of the way its easy to take the time and flip them in and out to see whats best. I'm working on a jazzy pop tune with lots of cymbal work and dirty synths. The GLD turned out to be too hot on the drums and hi pitch dirt, so I left those in MWC. The bass and harmony synths sounded great in GLD. Breathed life and buzz right into them.

I think hybrids may be the go way to go for we spoiled few.

Now to hear from Alex and CLC PRO.
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby cdsoundmaster » Tue May 18, 2010 9:40 pm

As always, this has turned into an excellent discussion.
I'll post the public release asap, but since Alex has released the new PRO's I will wait a little while, as I don't want to take away from his hard work on those.

I wanted to mention that I really stress the importance of setting levels and listening before doing tons of rendering. Just like you would with the actual hardware, you want to set things up for optimal use.

With Nebula, when things are properly sampled, the device will repeat as the hardware does- up to the point that it remains true. There is a threshold that it will go beyond when the amount of drive is no longer what correlates to the hardware but more than what the hardware produces.
I always say to make sure and listen first and you will not get these artifacts. The true sign that levels have gone beyond the actual setting is a ringing sound, extended overemphasized bass response, or harsh booomph attack. All that it takes is reducing drive by a few dB and this will sound perfect.

The other important reason to listen and not just render everything blindly or without knowing the sound first, is that items combine additively. You may love a console sound, or tape sound, or preamp sound, but when you load an entire chain up, all of them at high amounts of drive, they can give artifacts combined with each other instead of the pure sound they make on their own. Just like the real gear, subtle is best.
I hope this makes sense and perhaps inspires some experimentation for best results.
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby Raynorshyn » Wed May 19, 2010 1:38 am

Michael,

Would you consider posting a couple of files comparing a "proper" sounding chain versus one that has the "ringing sound, extended overemphasized bass response, or harsh booomph attack" that you describe?

My song projects are for fun rather than income, and I have a backlog I am enjoying learning Nebula on. But I have never sat behind a console, so I am at a disadvantage regarding what to listen for.

With individual tracks I have tried both; listening as each new insert is added, then rendering; and just sending a chain thru the renderer set at -18db and default drive settings in Nebula. Both seem to yield different but pleasing results.

Hope I am not hijacking :oops:
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby cdsoundmaster » Wed May 19, 2010 11:34 am

Hi there,
Sure!

This is just a quick example and you should listen with good monitors to hear the ringing mentioned. It is similar to the sound of taking a phaser effect and stopping its position in the 4kHz-ish range.
http://monumentalaudio.com/Dry-Good-2Much-Way2Much.mp3

First-dry, then one Neb instance for a nice saturation effect, then a little too much drive effect, then far too much drive effect. Hope this helps.

Raynorshyn wrote:Michael,

Would you consider posting a couple of files comparing a "proper" sounding chain versus one that has the "ringing sound, extended overemphasized bass response, or harsh booomph attack" that you describe?

My song projects are for fun rather than income, and I have a backlog I am enjoying learning Nebula on. But I have never sat behind a console, so I am at a disadvantage regarding what to listen for.

With individual tracks I have tried both; listening as each new insert is added, then rendering; and just sending a chain thru the renderer set at -18db and default drive settings in Nebula. Both seem to yield different but pleasing results.

Hope I am not hijacking :oops:
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby pat38 » Wed May 19, 2010 12:22 pm

Hi Michael

What do you mean by "drive" ?

The actual "drive" knob in the nebula gui, or the "input" stage cranked up ?

Thks !


[quote="CDSoundMaster"]Hi there,

First-dry, then one Neb instance for a nice saturation effect, then a little too much drive effect, then far too much drive effect. Hope this helps.

[quote="Raynorshyn"]Michael,
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Re: CD Soundmaster T*****t Console..

Postby TranscendingMusic » Wed May 19, 2010 2:23 pm

pat38 wrote:Hi Michael

What do you mean by "drive" ?

The actual "drive" knob in the nebula gui, or the "input" stage cranked up ?

Thks !


CDSoundMaster wrote:Hi there,

First-dry, then one Neb instance for a nice saturation effect, then a little too much drive effect, then far too much drive effect. Hope this helps.

Raynorshyn wrote:Michael,


"Drive" is normally indicated by the Drive parameter on the preset. However, the input stage can create non-linearities as well if cranked up. Depending on the preset and the tracks inherent level this can also go from a drive/sat effect into unwanted artifacts that Michael is talking about. Even on analog hardware, one can use, say, the input to drive a unit but after a certain point it would behoove one to turn it down to utilize a "sweet spot". Good level practice is vital for representation.
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