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Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby Nooorway » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:29 pm

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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby richie43 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:48 pm

AlexB wrote:Only to be clear.

1 - mercadonegro: in the 4kd, and MWD and so, the attack release values aren't prefects but they are like in the hardware, so if you set 3ms attack you haven't exactly 3ms physical attack. I prefer to maintain the imperfection by the hardware instead to set precisely values like in the digital plugins.

2 - Nebula libraries are cheap, impressive cheap compared to other plugins. For example if you buy the UAD1176 you spent 10 times the cost of the relative nebula library.
Why don't have more than one 1176 libraries ?
With the same cost for a "classic" plugin you can have ten or more libraries with little sonic differences between them, and I think that we are lucky to have TEN different real 1176s in the arsenal, instead of ten instances of the same digital plugin/library ! 8-)

Alex




I actually completely agree with Alex on this one. I love to have variations of emulations on similar HW units. It is one of the things that Nebula has afforded me after years of not having what I wanted while doing analog audio. :mrgreen:
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby richie43 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:50 pm

Nooorway wrote:Everyone should read this http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... =viewtopic



I copy/pasted that onto a doc to keep for re-reading the day that was originally posted. Everyone should read that before they get all upset about how Nebula handles compression. It's getting there, and it's already great in some respects.
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby ngarjuna » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:09 pm

AlexB wrote:...
2 - Nebula libraries are cheap, impressive cheap compared to other plugins. For example if you buy the UAD1176 you spent 10 times the cost of the relative nebula library.
Why don't have more than one 1176 libraries ?
With the same cost for a "classic" plugin you can have ten or more libraries with little sonic differences between them, and I think that we are lucky to have TEN different real 1176s in the arsenal, instead of ten instances of the same digital plugin/library ! 8-)

Alex

Not only this, but especially considering:

1. devs rarely develop exactly the same unit/revision; like the Pultec EQs which couldn't be more different from one another (the actual hardware too). That's not duplication (although there were many posts for a while wondering why Alex and Michael had duplicated their efforts) when one is solid state and the other is tube!

2. One classic unit is not identical to another classic unit. Even if the devs were sampling the exact same revision/unit, the differences from the unit itself combined with the actual sampling process the developer sets out on would make the program differences somewhat significant.

2A. Furthermore, few of the units sampled are "stock" anyway; most of the 3rd party developers have an interest in modification and restoration of classic gear. A console which was recapped by Alex is probably unique in the world; likewise the tweaks that Eric and Michael have performed on the units they're sampling.

So yeah, I say bring on the variety. The only problem that has ever caused is me wanting more programs than I need (for which there's an easy solution).
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby lordnielson » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:11 pm

Well I'm with Mercado on this one. I've not "heard" hardware nor algorithmic software behave like these Nebula libraries do. Now I can certainly "see" that there are similarities but I do have to trust my ears when they tell me that the Nebula attack on the first transient is too slow.

Could also be that everyone else has a version of Nebula that behaves differently than mine (499m).

I'm not dissing anyones work and I'm not trying to start a fight. I own both Alex and Eric stuff and am pleased by it. I'm just stating facts as I perceive them on a wholly personal level.
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby louis » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:18 pm

it's a known bug and will be sorted out in time.

"2) slow PROG RATE means that compressors will react in a slower way. It means less clipping issues, artefacts, troubles, but you could start processing sound later, and a transient could not be processed correctly (so you hear something loud at the beginning because compression is not engaged yet). On the other side you loose something but you gain something, which is the sound. When PROG RATE is slow you could reproduce the whole kernel lenght. It means accuracy of harmonic distortion and accuracy of frequency response."
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:47 pm

AlexB wrote:in the 4kd, and MWD and so, the attack release values aren't prefects but they are like in the hardware, so if you set 3ms attack you haven't exactly 3ms physical attack. I prefer to maintain the imperfection by the hardware instead to set precisely values like in the digital plugins.


And I truly appreciate your approach Alex because that's what makes Nebula special. Like Nielson said we're not trying to fight or diss any product, it's quite the opposite, we can't diss what sounds and works great, that would be stupid. This is the problem:

"2) slow PROG RATE means that compressors will react in a slower way. It means less clipping issues, artefacts, troubles, but you could start processing sound later, and a transient could not be processed correctly (so you hear something loud at the beginning because compression is not engaged yet). On the other side you loose something but you gain something, which is the sound. When PROG RATE is slow you could reproduce the whole kernel lenght. It means accuracy of harmonic distortion and accuracy of frequency response."


(Thanks louis)

That's what I'm talking about. It is Nebula, not your libraries, gents :)

Please don't take me wrong, I'm not bashing Nebula (I couldn't do that with a product I LOVE). Compression has gotten better, yes, noone can deny it, compressors behave better now. I'm just stating my point of view and sharing my feelings with you here: this problem is frustrating *for me* simply because I know these damn compressors sound like nothing else out there and I want to *trust* them but I just can't because as soon as I render my mix I'll have those hard hits all over the place (I'm talking about using compressors on busses). If I weren't using these comps on my busses the story would be completely different because on individual tracks this problem wouldn't be an issue (because I'd render and edit them afterwards... in fact, I do it sometimes).

@yr:
I'm using v1.3.499m. It isn't so bad now but it's still there.

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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby vicnestE » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:45 pm

Take MWD for consideration.
(According to AlexB, he re-sampled the unit again during the beta test after we compared to the clips of Steinberg's RND5043 & MWD beta1.
I remember it took him about 5~7 days to re-sample and re-programmed the attack/release behavior to deal with transients.)

The uncontrolled first transient is less noticeable unless you put a bus compressor with 10dB Gain Reduction. It can handle 7dB~8dB buss gain reduction quite well.

I have no idea what kind of music need so much bus compression. (Maybe it's because my cases are denser music.)

But MWD is a slow compressor, att=20ms, it might not be the same case for quick compressors.

By the way, using sidechain programs, and copy or render out the audio as it's side chain signal.
Move the sidechain audio a bit eary and it could simulate MWD in shorter attack. It could further reduce the first transient problem.
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby faun2500 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:03 pm

Interesting topic here but as usual I have nothing of interest to add. :P

Apart from I think every person should sample every compressor ever made and everyone should buy all of them.

Or not. See.
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Re: Erics gearing up for a nebula 1176

Postby TranscendingMusic » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:58 pm

regarding getting the same presets made by different dev's, been saying this for the past 2 years :o
http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... opic#p3078

amazing difference it makes depending on who speaks a truth, right ;)
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