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Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby reort » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:55 am

yes you are right I meant using external AD conversion connected to booth interfates that mostly leaves Pll differences but also switching Daw's and interfaces will negate some of the differences.

Haven't thought about above system setup in a while since I am testing a new setup using A Mytek firewire ADDA converter connected via Firewire switch to two PC's. This allows for using Mytek internal clock on booth setups as well as a quick A/B comparison since the Mytek registers automatically as soon as you switch PC's. I have not done system measurements in booth states to make sure that rhere are any measurable differences e.g jitter etc. But this looks promising and an improovement in general sound quality as well.
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby reort » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:17 am

Sorry everybody my Tech just informed me that the tests we made where using two identical PC's, OS, each connected via firewire to two of our Mytek 8X192's (not only one as I statet before). It looks like there is a problem with the DAW (Cubase at least)loosing ASIO driver when switching firewire switch.

I guess we won't be able to get around switching DAW's and interfaces after all and do two A/B listening test runs. Will see what differences measurements will reveal with this setup.
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby Gstell » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:59 pm

many ASIo drivers are multiclient these days. We own RME Audio and they are (do not know about Mytek).

Use your RME inteface to run any Daw's together on the exactly same hardware.

Cheap and easy A/B DAW testing [/b]under the same harware and software conditions (exept the Daw's of course).

If you want higher quality upgrade the DA converters xonnext them to RME and ready you go!
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby mpodrug » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:10 pm

AlexB wrote:No, it's the audio engine, not only the summing engine but the audio engine. Simply importing and exporting a track in Nuendo, the exported sounds different with some muddiness, unfocused bass and more narrowed and congested stereo image, less life. Probably if you haven't good room and accurate monitor it's quite hard to hear but... There is 8-)
Listen the original mix in the console section (nuendo) and the original mix in the compressor section (samplitude). The mix are matched at +/-0.1dB.

I had such large opinion about your work but now you put everything in question.

May i ask what is "audio engine" for you? And could you post your files which you used for testing between Nuendo and Samplitude? If you can hear so obvious difference then it can be so obviously measured. Even it if is subtle and one need good room, it can be measured.

Btw i am not biased towards any of your product you listed. Just to say that i am not fanboy of anything. I use Ableton, FL Studio and Cubase. But i have done several test between all three and Reaper and Nuendo and Energy XT. When test was done properly ALL of listed products completely nulled one with another. Which means that there is no single thing to debate or argue about it. All rendered same file. Not even the most partizan audio engineer can debate something like that.

However in the beginning i had different result but everything was solved once when i realized that different DAW applications have different PAN laws by default. Once when i matched that they became totally same.

Since you claim that Samplitude have more "open stage" (what is that ??)i am actually very interested to hear about it. Interestingly enough i never tried samplitude for mixing and that's why i am so intrigued about your claim. And i would like to know your testing methods.


However i want to say that i believe that you simply didn't do your test properly and that's why you hear difference. Not because some application has better engine vs other. IMHO it is very unlikely that 99% of applications do 1+1 as 2 while one is doing something different as long as we speak about simple modest audio in audio out.
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby nino » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:22 pm

Every now and then this theme pops up.
I really would like to know for sure what is going on,
do DAWs sound the same, the only test which would convince me
would be multiple mixes using same plugs, presets etc. If you just import wavs and dont touch anything is not proof for me.
I heard there is some sort of CD (that is for sale) with examples where some people did extensive testing of different DAWs and they proved DAW SOUND THE SAME.
I really appreciate you AlexB and consider you person without hype, If you could bust this myth one way or the other I would appreciate you even more.

And I agree that if someone doesn't have good room and equipment (I do have it and I'm working in pro studio and beside placebo efx it sound same to me) you can provide measurement differences.
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby surbitone » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:51 pm

I listened to the 'original ITB' and the 'new ITB' mix on my PMC LB1 sigs bi-amped with 2 x BK Electronics MXF 900 amps & 2 Rythmik f12g subs, fed from Benchmark DAC1s & Lynx L-Two in a well-treated room. I find it impossible to believe that they are processed identically and that those differences are solely down to the DAW's alone, unless there was a serious bug somewhere. I own(ed) Sequoia 10 and Reaper, and whilst the Sequioa SRC sounds better than Reapers', the 'mix engine' wasn't noticeably better in any objective way - you could null them. Also real-time playback and mixed sample-rates are issues to consider also. :idea:
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby audioanal » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:14 pm

mpodrug wrote:
May i ask what is "audio engine" for you? And could you post your files which you used for testing between Nuendo and Samplitude? If you can hear so obvious difference then it can be so obviously measured. Even it if is subtle and one need good room, it can be measured.



completely agree.
All daws sound the same if you test them properly.
Samplitude sounds a little different because the pan law is set to 0db by default, while Nuendo or PT have -3db
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby AlexB » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:12 am

Sorry guys, I didn't want to create this type of discussion, however I don't believe to be stupid and the test has been made in perfect way as the two mix (same level, pan etc.). The differences are huge to me. I'm sorry but every daw has different audio engine, algorithms and more which make these differences. My final test has been done with two identical PC, Software, Drivers and converters switched by hardware to monitor = differences !
I prefer Samplitude and it isn't a placebo, psychological illness or so. I preferred to work with Nuendo a lot, BUT Samplitude sounds more clean and natural.
Everybody love different things, I don't understand why not to admit the reality.
I don't claim one is better than others, but everyone sounds different. End of the story.
8-)
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby blandry » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:19 am

AlexB wrote:Sorry guys, I didn't want to create this type of discussion, however I don't believe to be stupid and the test has been made in perfect way as the two mix (same level, pan etc.). The differences are huge to me. I'm sorry but every daw has different audio engine, algorithms and more which make these differences. My final test has been done with two identical PC, Software, Drivers and converters switched by hardware to monitor = differences !
I prefer Samplitude and it isn't a placebo, psychological illness or so. I preferred to work with Nuendo a lot, BUT Samplitude sounds more clean and natural.
Everybody love different things, I don't understand why not to admit the reality.
I don't claim one is better than others, but everyone sounds different. End of the story.
8-)

Hi Alex. Did you try Sequoia?
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Re: Test: MWD vs RND5043 / MWeQ vs RND5033

Postby AlexB » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:28 am

No but Sequoia and Samplitude share the same audio engine.
Mix with the ears, not with the eyes...
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