Login

STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Officially Licensed 3rd Party Developer Libraries
Free 3rd Party Programs

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:12 pm

yr wrote:I only had the VTM-M2 for a trial period, but if I remember correctly, it always adds harmonic distortion (which is why it can also be used as a stand-alone tape simulator). I think you could use a compressor to simulate the effects of compression but it is not that easy- it's not linear.


VTM adds some saturation but that's really what Tapebooster+ is doing. The three stage solution depends on: 1) machine skew (frequency, machine specific saturation/distortion), 2) specifically saturation-based distortion through TB+, 3) compression element through VTM. So, as you would expect, the majority of saturation distortion comes in the first two stages. Michael doesn't get too specific about VTM and what it's actually doing but how much TB+ you add (or don't) definitely has a big impact on how saturated things sound.

As to the compressor solution, there are plenty of compressors out there which are capable of impersonating tape compression; before VTM was created I did it many times over on every mix. It's not a simple 1:1 replacement for tape compression but with some tweaking you can get very, very close with a decent variety of compressors.
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby yr » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:55 pm

Could you share some compression parameters you've used?- I'm actually looking for good information about how to achieve this effect. I remember following Michael's tape compression guidelines, but never being happy with the results because of the transient lose at low levels.

About the VTM, I'm really speaking from memory here, but I think on the 0 input/0 output position (set to low) it was already generating quite a lot of saturation using a -18dBFS test signal. I actually made some measurements, but I can't find them.

It's good to remember that the Stud810 and NAG presets behave differently then the R2R (which only generates a relative modest amount of saturation for most presets). Unlike the R2R, you don't need to augment the NAG/Stud810 presets if you are trying to achieve realistic saturation levels within the tape formula specifications.
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:09 pm

yr wrote:Could you share some compression parameters you've used?- I'm actually looking for good information about how to achieve this effect. I remember following Michael's tape compression guidelines, but never being happy with the results because of the transient lose at low levels.

Sure:
Threshold: usually between -40 and -60 is a good starting point
Attack: this is going to vary somewhat depending on which compressor you're using (and which mode if it's one of those kinds of compressors).
Release: I usually start around 100ms (which is often fine) and tweak from there as needed.
Ratio: anywhere from 1.1:1.0 to 1.3:1.0 (ish)

Michael had this advice:
What I normally do when trying to set the right sound up is load an unprocessed drum loop, get my settings, and then increase ratio to make the character of the compressor very obvious. I tweak based on that, and once it is addressing peaks and timing correctly, I lower the ratio back down. This should help for tuning...


He also mentioned:

The closest sounding option to the real thing that I've heard is the Voxengo Polysquasher at an extremely low ratio set to where it barely starts to change volume. It is very close to what I think the right sound is. What I am developing is cleaner at the right stages though, and only applies more complex control when there is more dynamic change, so it truly acts just like the compression that happens in hand with the saturation of the machine used. I don't know if you've tried the Polysquasher, but it is a pretty wonderful sounding master comp and definitely can handle the task for the R2R end chain among other things.


I don't own Polysquasher nor have I demoed it but I've gotten very usable results from ReaComp and Bombardier.
User avatar
ngarjuna
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Miami

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby yr » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:23 pm

Thanks ngarjuna, I will check if I can download a demo of the Polysquasher. I guess you probably need some variation in the attack/release times depending on the input level (faster attack for loud signal to mimic transient lose at high levels etc).
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby Mercado_Negro » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:45 am

The way VTM-M2 reacts to dynamics is second to none. I have 4 presets I always use:

Merc Default:
Input: -7dB
Output: 8dB
Lo setting

Merc Tape:
Input: -7dB
Output: 6dB
Hi setting

Merc Tape Low Input:
Input: -17dB
Output: 15dB
Hi setting

Merc Tape Driven:
Input: 0dB
Output: 0dB
Hi setting

The amazing part of VTM-M2 is it does really improve the stereo image, like nothing else I've tried before (at least on a "natural" way). The way it treats transients is just fantastic and I can't really see myself mixing without it. I use it on the Master Buss or Groups (and just because it uses a lot of CPU at 96kHz... I wish I could run it live on all my tracks). VTM-M2 plus Eric's NAG TApe gives a "solid" sound I can't seem to get with any other tape from the R2R (but to be honest, I don't combine it with Nebula that much because of the CPU usage, sigh).

Anyways, even on "stand-alone" mode this VTM-M2 plug-in does the job (best analog-like plug-in in DSP form, in my opinion).

Cheers
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby yr » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:15 am

Mercado_Negro wrote:The way VTM-M2 reacts to dynamics is second to none. I have 4 presets I always use:

Merc Default:
Input: -7dB
Output: 8dB
Lo setting

Merc Tape:
Input: -7dB
Output: 6dB
Hi setting

Merc Tape Low Input:
Input: -17dB
Output: 15dB
Hi setting

Merc Tape Driven:
Input: 0dB
Output: 0dB
Hi setting

The amazing part of VTM-M2 is it does really improve the stereo image, like nothing else I've tried before (at least on a "natural" way). The way it treats transients is just fantastic and I can't really see myself mixing without it. I use it on the Master Buss or Groups (and just because it uses a lot of CPU at 96kHz... I wish I could run it live on all my tracks). VTM-M2 plus Eric's NAG TApe gives a "solid" sound I can't seem to get with any other tape from the R2R (but to be honest, I don't combine it with Nebula that much because of the CPU usage, sigh).

Anyways, even on "stand-alone" mode this VTM-M2 plug-in does the job (best analog-like plug-in in DSP form, in my opinion).

Cheers


Thanks "Mercado Negro" -Very interesting explanation about the VTM-2. I'm curious why Michael didn't add a way to switch off the harmonic distortion (perhaps something for a future update?).
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby Henry Olonga » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:22 pm

Bought this baby a few weeks ago and love it love it love it!!!!!
User avatar
Henry Olonga
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:38 am
Location: South west England

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby Mercado_Negro » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:42 pm

yr wrote:I'm curious why Michael didn't add a way to switch off the harmonic distortion (perhaps something for a future update?).


Why would you want that?
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby yr » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:55 pm

Simple- I didn't like the sound of the harmonic distortion it was generating. I also think it's not needed in order to achieve realistic saturation levels if you are using the Stud810/NAG or the R2R+TB combo.

I can understand why you want the added THD if you are using this plug as a separate tape simulation. But if you are using it as part of a 3 stage tape simulation, or in combination with the latest tape presets, then it becomes quite a task to achieve proper tape compression while avoiding exaggerated saturation (more so with the Stud810/NAG). If I remember correctly, this plugin produces more saturation with the input set to the lowest and the low switch then the maximum amounts possible with the studer/otari presets (R2R@0 dBFS)
Reuven | post-production & sound-design | scenography |
website | nebula presets
User avatar
yr
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: STN - NAG TApe – Electromagnetic Tape Nebula Programs

Postby fimpen » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:38 pm

The demos don't work with the free version av Nebula, right?
fimpen
User Level 0
User Level 0
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:17 pm

PreviousNext

Return to 3rd party libraries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests