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AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Tim Petherick » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:32 am

Alex ,

I know you have alot of questions to answer .But could you give me advice on the ahead function .If I have a Prog rate of 1.0 .Do I turn the ahead to 1 ms to get accurate to the hardware? . can you explain the ahead function better.


Thanks

Tim
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:39 am

I've worked with The Glue for over two years and I've used a X-Logic G series comp a couple of times. While the hardware is still the best I can say now that we got closer to it with this suite. Very close.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:41 am

Isn't The Glue modeled after a totally different piece of hardware? Not really an apples-and-apples comparison. But if you're talking about user friendly features, the Glue offers:
-HP detector filter
-range control
-.01 attack setting
-parallel control

Personally I miss the HP detector filter most on Nebula compressors; sure, I can route to a sub-buss and EQ it and use that as my buss comp detector side chain but compared to turning the HP filter dial...that's a pain in the ass.

I haven't bought Alex's library yet and I'm sure it's awesome and I'm sure on a lot of material I'll also prefer it to The Glue. But dissing the plugin that was advertised in all AlexB user manuals over the last couple years? If it was a good compressor until the 4KD Pro then I don't see how now all of the sudden it's "2D". A good compressor is about getting my client's job done not comparing it to other plugins anyway. If 4KD gets me there faster, then so much the better, but it's really all about getting there more than the ride for me.

Then again, I hear these words "flat", "2D", "3D" and I don't even really know what they mean. Things would get so much less confusing and argumentative if we would restrict ourselves to talking about the actual physical traits of audio which we can and do measure.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 am

timp wrote:Alex ,

I know you have alot of questions to answer .But could you give me advice on the ahead function .If I have a Prog rate of 1.0 .Do I turn the ahead to 1 ms to get accurate to the hardware? . can you explain the ahead function better.


Thanks

Tim


Look-ahead, if it's implemented the way it usually is on compressors and limiters, is just a delay between the compressor and the detector circuit so that you can react faster (very, very fast) by moving the detector backwards in time slightly. So if you move it backwards 5ms, then the transient that it was reacting to, it now has the same reaction only 5ms sooner. In practice, this has the ability to either tame or crush transients depending on how you have it set.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:57 am

ngarjuna wrote:dissing the plugin that was advertised in all AlexB user manuals over the last couple years? If it was a good compressor until the 4KD Pro then I don't see how now all of the sudden it's "2D". A good compressor is about getting my client's job done not comparing it to other plugins anyway. If 4KD gets me there faster, then so much the better, but it's really all about getting there more than the ride for me.


I don't get it either. The Glue is still my "go-to" compressor for pretty much everything and I don't see myself changing that because it just works and clients are happy. This suite sounds better but it's not a real solution because 1) Nebula is still heavy on CPU and I hate rendering (freezing); and 2) Faster times do not sound there "yet". All in all, I'll say it again, it's the best S*L comp, sound-wise, out there, period (please note this is my solely opinion).

ngarjuna wrote:Then again, I hear these words "flat", "2D", "3D" and I don't even really know what they mean. Things would get so much less confusing and argumentative if we would restrict ourselves to talking about the actual physical traits of audio which we can and do measure.


Heh I don't get those terms either sometimes. To me, it sounds good or it sounds bad, that's all.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby dpclarkson » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:22 am

Maybe it depends by the input level. See on the user manual the reference level : 0dBVU = -18dBfs.


Unfortunately not; I adjusted the input, also the input pad in the GLOB page, but the clipping is still there after 2/3 dB gain reduction.
The only workaround, is to use very long release times, as someone else stated in a previous post.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby RJHollins » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:26 am

ngarjuna wrote:Isn't The Glue modeled after a totally different piece of hardware?

Then again, I hear these words "flat", "2D", "3D" and I don't even really know what they mean.


Hi ngarjuna ... I think the 'GLUE' is modeled from a different series ... so, yes, the comparisons should be tempter to that.

HOWEVER ... [and referring to AlexB post that much better described what I was hinting at in a preceding post] ... the 'sound stage' that most ever compressor plugin [hey, lets include EQ's as well], all seemed to have a 'flat' imaging to me [this has NOTHING to do with the term 'flat frequency response'. The appearance of 'space', width & depth of the sounds in a track is what I'd term 3D [3 dimension].
Most plugins I've used [and there are quite a few in my quest for a sound that I know exists], have always 'exposed' themselves by a type of plastic-y sound, and/or a single dimension/ flat presentation, like the mix was being pushed into a sheet of glass.
Words are tough to describe, but terms like lifeless, or sterile are often adjectives I've used around 'Innocent' eyes ... when in company of peers or oneself, its' usually '^(*^%#@!^%!)!%(^%(!(%' :evil:

More importantly than 'words' ... is the 2nd point. BECAUSE of the depth that is maintain with this release [and NEB libs in general], the 'usual' plugin approach will be a mistake. Especially when some users ONLY really have a plugin reference. Experience is mandatory [just like the many hours spent learning this hardware] to understand and LISTEN DEEPLY to what is happening to the sounds.
WaveLAB has a very useful [although clumsy] balancing A/B options, which basically allows you to compare and bypass effects at a cal'd volume.

My opinion, this library will attest that NEBULA and it's sounds are NOT for everyone. [although most everyone clamors for what NEBULA can do ... however, the listening/study curve is as critical as it was/is in the 'old daze'.

Sorry for the rambling ... this was NOT address to anyone specific at ALL ... but a launch point for discussion of the release of a powerful new library.
I definitely need to put my time in with this ... again ... but now in software form ... mmmmmm 8-)
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Definity » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:51 am

i was at -26dB and i was still getting distortion on the low end
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby ngarjuna » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:58 am

RJH-

Thanks for explaining, I appreciate that you took the time to to elucidate. You're right, these subjects can be difficult to discuss.

When I think of how a compressor works on sound, I tend to think in terms of the attack (the clamping itself), the release and the frequency skew of the unit. In regards to the attack specifically, I think that clamping process (the timing of it) is what VST compressors have yet to nail. I have always suspected that this is because of how fast all this is happening and that we didn't have tools with the kind of precision necessary to make complex analysis in .1ms (I have no idea if that's actually the case, it falls well outside of my expertise).

But when people say (and they say it a lot if they've worked with hardware comps) that no VST compressor clamps like a hardware compressor, it's true. That doesn't mean that every hardware compressor is better than every VST, obviously, but that behavior (the clamping) is one of the the most desired features of the most famous compressor designs. So if that's what you're talking about in regards to "flat" (the transient shape), then I totally hear what you're saying in regards to compressors. But when you describe an EQ

Most plugins I've used [and there are quite a few in my quest for a sound that I know exists], have always 'exposed' themselves by a type of plastic-y sound, and/or a single dimension/ flat presentation, like the mix was being pushed into a sheet of glass.


I just really don't understand what you mean. I mean no disrespect and I'm not dissing you for using that terminology (it obviously means something to you and others), I just can't really translate it into frequency/dynamic/timing in any meaningful way. So rather than complain about the terminology, I would really just like to understand what it means. My fear is that "flat" means 100 different things to 100 different engineers; versus the slope of the attack seems a little steep which should basically convey the same basic idea to everyone. I'm sure you catch my drift. I'm not asking you to defend your terminology, either, I know you have better things to do than wax philosophical about language in audio with some random ass on the iNet =). But that's always a hurdle for me in these kinds of threads (which I usually jump over when the thread grows a lot and slowly but surely initial linguistic impressions are replaced by shootouts and data and more technical descriptions).

With previous Nebula compressors I always felt that the clamp is indeed different than any other VST offering I've ever used but still not what a hardware compressor does in terms of the transient shaping no matter how much you fiddle with it. I am not going to judge the clamping of this release on the demo, that wouldn't be fair at all, so I'll have to see next week how I feel about this library. So as much as I love Nebula (I hope my constant presence on this forum and my usual opinions here and elsewhere have made it obvious that I LOVE Nebula) in my experience the clamping is not there yet. Nothing would make me happier than to discover that 4KD has changed all that, though.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Mercado_Negro » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:18 am

ngarjuna wrote:Nothing would make me happier than to discover that 4KD has changed all that, though.


No, it hasn't. In fact, I'm very happy to read, finally, an accurate term (maybe not technological but at least more specific) to describe what VST compressors are missing: clamping. That's exactly what I hear and still need... my quest isn't over yet :)

4KD is way closer to the "sound"... closer to that S*L "tone" and at some degree, to its behavior but we still need those rounded up transients.
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