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AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby yr » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:23 pm

ngarjuna wrote:I have a hypothetical question.

Based on what you're describing in the post about compressor settings (awesome post, btw, thanks G!), you mention that lowering the prog rate in order to speed up the compression behavior is at the expense of the sonic quality of the sampling session (truncating kernels and what not).

So my question is: is it not the a viable method, in preparing a compressor library, to sample the harmonics as one Nebula program (maybe you could even have a single control to adjust for higher and lower amounts of compression which do indeed affect the character) and the actual envelope following in a second instance that could be set with a lower prog_rate? Not sure if that's even possible (2 instances at different prog rates) but it just struck me that the process which protects the beauty of the saturation is precisely what is limiting the speed of attacks.

I could just have a fundamental misunderstanding of the process, though, I haven't sampled all that much and certainly not a compressor so I don't really know what's involved.


Since the dynamic behavior of Nebula remains a compromise, I think it's still more simple/effective to combine Nebula's color with a clean (but pleasant) sounding vst compressor if you need accurate dynamic control. I think that there was a general misunderstanding about what can be done with Nebula compressors after the latest updates, and perhaps an unrealistic level of expectations...
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby ngarjuna » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:26 pm

yr wrote:Since the dynamic behavior of Nebula remains a compromise, I think it's still more simple/effective to combine Nebula's color with a clean (but pleasant) sounding vst compressor if you need accurate dynamic control. I think that there was a general misunderstanding about what can be done with Nebula compressors after the latest updates, and perhaps an unrealistic level of expectations...


Yes, this does work just fine. In fact, I love that many of the compressor program samplers have provided the non-compressor programs of the signal chain for exactly this purpose.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby sfunk » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:59 pm

thanks for the post Giancarlo although i will admit on first read it may have created more questions that answers :D

Going back to the point about it may be better to use a transparent vst/au compressor for the dynamic control and Neb for the colour.....wouldnt that be getting back to one of the big problems with software compressors thats been discussed the unrealistic "grad" of software.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby giancarlo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:10 pm

well I don't think the answer is using two compressors. I think this release is pretty good, but sometimes it could fail. Like many preamp emulations in nebula. You try a new preset and you go on instead of forcing a 4k instance when it's not working. We are speaking about a good emulation, in most of cases it will work as expected. When I need to compress a bottom drum I don't use nebula, period. For a bassline I don't use nebula, unless it was already processed using other vst. For synthesizers it will work, and so for vocals, and so for many other sources.

A stock plugin compressor will work in every possible case BUT sometimes you loose something important even when it seems to be ok. You have the right dynamic effect but terribly flat and lifeless. In nebula it just appears very good or very bad. And don't forget the main purpose for this compressor, which is sidechain and which works veeeeeeeeeeery well. So there are way more applications than a color preamp on the top of a compressor
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Tim Petherick » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:55 pm

Thanks for the post on compressors giancarlo.

It's what I expected , I do like to play with Program rate and what you have explained is what I hear , It is a kind of a one or the other sort of scenario.This is why I have several xml at different rate's and listen for the effect on the program . Still nebula out performs other plugins .I was impressed how the Alex b's new compressor sounds stable with no pumping.





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Last edited by Tim Petherick on Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby woeischris » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:56 pm

Seriously G, that post you wrote is probably the most descriptive, helpful FAQ that you have ever put on the site. Fantastic!
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby dpclarkson » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:03 pm

I personally see no point in using a vst comp for
the timing, it completely defeats the whole purpose.
Once a signal is passed through a vst, the initial transients
are destroyed, meaning you're coloring a tird.
I think the smooth parameter does a great job, although it
may not be 100% true to the original, it's still better than
any algorithmic-based plugin. My drums are really spanking
again, like I remember when they were passed through
a ssl4000G and 9000J console. They're cutting through the mix
so easy, because it adds weigth, something that a vst comp
simply can't do. Guys who actually worked or recorded
with an S*L know what I mean.
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby Tim Petherick » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:13 pm

dpclarkson wrote:I personally see no point in using a vst comp for
the timing, it completely defeats the whole purpose.
Once a signal is passed through a vst, the initial transients
are destroyed, meaning you're coloring a tird.
I think the smooth parameter does a great job, although it
may not be 100% true to the original, it's still better than
any algorithmic-based plugin. My drums are really spanking
again, like I remember when they were passed through
a ssl4000G and 9000J console. They're cutting through the mix
so easy, because it adds weigth, something that a vst comp
simply can't do. Guys who actually worked or recorded
with an S*L know what I mean.



+1 :)

Nebula is king in terms of beautiful sound. I get the same feeling when using other plugs.Although some good ones out .
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby ngarjuna » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:43 pm

dpclarkson wrote:I personally see no point in using a vst comp for
the timing, it completely defeats the whole purpose.
Once a signal is passed through a vst, the initial transients
are destroyed, meaning you're coloring a tird.
I think the smooth parameter does a great job, although it
may not be 100% true to the original, it's still better than
any algorithmic-based plugin. My drums are really spanking
again, like I remember when they were passed through
a ssl4000G and 9000J console. They're cutting through the mix
so easy, because it adds weigth, something that a vst comp
simply can't do. Guys who actually worked or recorded
with an S*L know what I mean.


Well if you're talking about the clamping, then I disagree. In my experience Nebula is different than many other VST compressors but it's not necessarily any closer to nailing that timing.

Using a 2-stage solution is identical to using a 1-stage solution in terms of the transient destruction (meaning, how you dial it in determines how hard the transients get crushed); what it could potentially offer is removing the tradeoff between proper envelope following and keeping the timing long enough to use full kernel lengths for saturation. Plus, if the env follower is choking on really heavy gain reduction (I think it was you who first pointed this out in the thread, wasn't it DPClarkson?) then that's a bit more critical even then just trying to find an ideal balance. But a 2-stage solution has no more impact on the transients than a 1-stage solution; only one stage has any gain reduction occurring (just like if you were using a single instance solution).

Since Nebula has essentially the same impact on transients (or it can, anyway, when dialed in that way) as any software compressor I've ever used, I'm not really sure why you think VSTs are "coloring a turd" but Nebula is somehow different. The only difference I'm hearing is that the frequency curve and saturation from the original unit is amazing piled on top of an envelope follower that still doesn't sound like hardware. That's great, but it's not at all different from using a Nebula preamp stage with no GR and a very clean software compressor for the GR behavior.

I've worked on plenty of SSLs and I don't have any problem using VST compressors (other than the fact that they don't really clamp like hardware, but a tradeoff is a tradeoff; if I could afford 50 tracks of GComp or N**e 2254 I wouldn't hesitate).
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Re: AlexB - 4KD PRO : Dynamics Collection

Postby yr » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:52 pm

dpclarkson wrote:I personally see no point in using a vst comp for
the timing, it completely defeats the whole purpose.
Once a signal is passed through a vst, the initial transients
are destroyed, meaning you're coloring a tird.
I think the smooth parameter does a great job, although it
may not be 100% true to the original, it's still better than
any algorithmic-based plugin. My drums are really spanking
again, like I remember when they were passed through
a ssl4000G and 9000J console. They're cutting through the mix
so easy, because it adds weigth, something that a vst comp
simply can't do. Guys who actually worked or recorded
with an S*L know what I mean.


I guess that depends on what your purpose actually is. There are many reasons to use (or not use) compression and endless ways to do it. Nebula comps don't always fit the bill and to me personally it's not a problem. I don't really understand what you are saying regarding the loss of transients when using vst plugs (if properly designed). If anything then I believe it's the other way around- some nebula preamps/consoles and tape emulations tend to round-off transients which is good or bad depending on what you are looking for. Harmonic distortion is of course a different story, and some distortion can go a long way in improving perceived clarity (etc etc)
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