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Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Mercado_Negro » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:22 am

mathias wrote:it seems, that some instances of the plugin were a little overdriven.


No, they were not overdriven. The plug-in has a big headroom and this tape, the FG9, is the one that has more. I tried to make "pushed" examples to see what they were capable of and how they reacted to dynamic changes, transients, etc. I checked each element on its own and then heard everything as a whole, one by one, track by track. Fine-tuned it as much as I could, right to the point where I could hear the distortion and then pulled them a bit down.

Surprisingly, with Nebula it was much faster. Maybe because I knew what to use (I've become very intimate with each R2R and TapeBoost program).
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby SWAN » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:02 am

my first impression is this:

The Nebula example has a slight high end lift which is opposite to the slate example...this does potentially make it more difficult to draw comparisons...However - it sounds open which is pleasant - and perhaps that contributes to the feeling of improved handling of the signal upon saturation - ie it doesnt sound congested at all by the distortion/saturation. In fact - you can hardly hear the saturation - the signal just sounds bigger. You only hear the saturation when you switch back to the original. In this context - you could say the processing is an effortless addition to the signal.

The Slate example sounds like a saturated and compressed version of the original track-however having a slight low end boost and softening of highs-and it adds punch. These are all regarded as favorable attributes. My concern with the highs and lows are - do they sound natural and do they breathe with dynamics? Or are they choked or false sounding...Im not sure yet how I feel about this. If Im honest - in many of the demos of SLate VTM I have not felt that feeling of enjoyment I can get from an analogue process. I wont bother describing that here with words because that is not politically correct these days - but people know what I mean.
I have to say Im not sure I hear anything massively exciting in the Slate VTM more so than other algo saturation tape examples. The switching on and off of the VTM examples gives that 'oh wow - volume boost...some bass and less highs....' But is it really musical sounding...Im not sure.

I wonder if there might be a more EQ neutral preset in R2R to compare with...
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Mercado_Negro » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:53 am

SWAN wrote:I wonder if there might be a more EQ neutral preset in R2R to compare with...


Ok, here you go:

http://www.mediafire.com/?hdndgw42lfntdvd

I used the "Studer_-9_15a" program this time and since this changed the saturation I also had to change some TapeBooster programs.

Cheers
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby lipa » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:39 am

thanks for this comparision! ;) i liked nebula much better too.. (..but the kick is distorted on every track - preamp hitting ad converter too hard)
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby mickdundee63 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:03 pm

I can see the punch from VTM being useful to get drums to cut through but nebula seems like it would be better for thickening/enlivening.

Maybe even a subtle (as possible) VTM instance plus tapebooster could work? Mercado IIRC you said that VTM + VTM-M2 was not outrageous?

Given both approaches are praised for their accuracy I was not expecting such a big difference. Have the nebula chain but will probably end up getting VTM as well. Poor wallet.

I suspect the way that both approaches integrate with console emulations will be relevant as well. VTM sounds tighter and dryer to me in a way that might be beneficial in some circumstance but throwing an Alexb console in the mix I find narrows and defines things a bit as well so maybe it would work with the nebula approach better. Will have to demo to do my own comparisons but this is a really big help - Thanks Mercado!
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby SWAN » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:42 pm

Mercado_Negro wrote:
SWAN wrote:I wonder if there might be a more EQ neutral preset in R2R to compare with...


Ok, here you go:

http://www.mediafire.com/?hdndgw42lfntdvd

I used the "Studer_-9_15a" program this time and since this changed the saturation I also had to change some TapeBooster programs.

Cheers


great!

Close!

The Slate VTM has more low end and a bit more punch. It punches the transients harder but the rest of the signal appears less compressed. Im not sure if I like the way it pushes the transient through-sounds slightly exaggerated.

The Nebula example to me sounds a bit more open prob because of less treble roll off - and you can hear the room sound more.

Theres not a lot in it - it was my second attempt I got 100% correct in an ABX test...

I dont yet have the VTM-M2 plugin which is another $179 on top of $99 + $39 in Nebula, or $149+$49...total $319 or $368...then there is the requirement for offline processing/latency.

Slate VTM is $200 with lower latency.

Id prefer to support AA and CDS-as I think the results are marginally more natural.
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby sfunk » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:57 pm

I am with you Swan. I can not and will not support, buy or have ANYTHING to do with Slate products at all. The marketing for this plugin has been completely objectionable; from the start "Slate" was making comments defaming all the current tape emulations saying they weren't good enough and we have this recent video that is just an outright smear at Nebula. Lets not even talk about the obligatory thread on Gearslutz that just gets bumped 24/7 with salivating, hyped up "posters" :roll:
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Mercado_Negro » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:13 pm

mickdundee63 wrote:Mercado IIRC you said that VTM + VTM-M2 was not outrageous?


Not at all. VTM-M2 is my favorite plug-in, nothing can really do what it does. It shapes transients, enhance the stereo image, smoothens the low-end and tames hi-frequencies like no other plug-in in my toolbox. I even use it without tape emulations. I've been using it in my Master Track, right after VCC, for a long long time and I'm very pleased with the results. I don't believe in magic plug-ins but this VTM-M2 thing has some serious voodoo coded inside heh

I used VTM + VTM-M2 a few hours ago on a rough mix I had to pull out real quick for a client. I kept VTM at unity and VTM-M2 at -17dB/15dB (in/out)... really nice.

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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby yr » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:27 pm

Interesting thread. Hard to say how much closer to Nebula you can get with Slate without actually testing it. In any case, if you like supporting small developers and don't miss looking at spinning reels, ReelBus and ToTape2 are good options. Below are a couple of files I made from the original drum sample:

ToTape2 (x2- it's a subtle effect):
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?2b6yacom2c55ovw

ReelBus: (+2db HS@10kHz to match R2R sample better):
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?wboozmtj9a6pwmq

STN NAG30 (x2)+ polysquasher:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?aauv9qlsuuuw5pi
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Martinez » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:01 am

I sold my guitar amp to move interstate and have not replaced it yet.

When I was re-amping some DI'd tracks I was mixing I noticed something about the amp sim that I was using.
It is not musical!!!

It suddenly dawned on me that the reason I have had such trouble getting useable sounds through the amp sims is because the distortion they produce is not musical.
There just isn't another way to say it other than to say that they make a noise like a guitar amp but they aren't musical like one.

I suspect the same is true of all analogue gear including tape.

The experience with the amp sim just really brought home this truth for me.
Before that I didn't know what it was that wasn't as good about digital approximations of these bits of analogue gear.

Not Musical!!!

I knew what the outcome of this comparison between S#@#te and neula would be before I even read any of the responses.
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