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Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Mercado_Negro » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 pm

I've been preparing some audio demos but the studio is keeping me real busy to finish them. I'll post them here in a few days...
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby cdsoundmaster » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:23 pm

Hi everyone,
Just thought I would mention that there is only one real VTM :-)
R2R is absolutely accurate to the real machines with spectral dynamic response and harmonics.
TB+ helps to boost the gain heavier using Nebula and it is easy to set up a chain and render offline or in bypass on bus groups.
VTM-M2, the only real Vintage Tape Machine, is the real deal. It is the result of a 5 year process. It is based upon recordings of numerous real tape machines and is not merely a late response to a market where there is money to be made, where one can come along and throw money at a programmer to get in the game :-) This is a separate and original process that I created that is an algo, but it is completely different than any competing algo process and I believe in it providing exactly the sound of tape.
VTM-M2 adds low subtle to high gain saturation in extremely complex, always changing amounts, and adds natural limiting/compression even at -80dB, more and more audibly the heavier it is driven. Using all 3 stages guarantees loading a specific machine and allowing real sounding saturation and compressing if desired, but also allows the user the luxury of deciding to use only one stage if that is the only one that is relevant to their work. There are, and have been, a lot of "tape saturation" fads out there, and most of them are there to take people's money. I believe R2R/TB+/VTM-M2 are the right solution from one who has a love for the sound of tape and also wants to keep it easy to afford at any level. I think the sound speaks for itself.
As far as reviews, I don't post the personal comments I receive because I like to let things speak for themselves. It has been reviewed by Sound on Sound speaking positively about Nebula and VVKT, and I have received positive comments from world famous producers and engineers, and personally love hearing from people that use a real Revox side by side with R2R and say I nailed the sound. People that have the Sony have written saying how it sounds just like their machine. People that use the A800 have written and thanked me for the R2R machine and said it sounds right on. This is what makes it worth it.
I am certain that the UAD options are top notch. They have always been consistently good at their products and they offer a lot of tunable options under the hood. I think you get exactly what you need with the 3 stage approach and in the end it saves $, but if looking for a single machine at a higher price, you have the benefit with UAD of changing calibration etc and I am sure it sounds excellent!
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby KP2009 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:27 pm

cdsoundmaster wrote:Hi everyone,
Just thought I would mention that there is only one real VTM :-)
R2R is absolutely accurate to the real machines with spectral dynamic response and harmonics.
TB+ helps to boost the gain heavier using Nebula and it is easy to set up a chain and render offline or in bypass on bus groups.
VTM-M2, the only real Vintage Tape Machine, is the real deal. It is the result of a 5 year process. It is based upon recordings of numerous real tape machines and is not merely a late response to a market where there is money to be made, where one can come along and throw money at a programmer to get in the game :-) This is a separate and original process that I created that is an algo, but it is completely different than any competing algo process and I believe in it providing exactly the sound of tape.
VTM-M2 adds low subtle to high gain saturation in extremely complex, always changing amounts, and adds natural limiting/compression even at -80dB, more and more audibly the heavier it is driven. Using all 3 stages guarantees loading a specific machine and allowing real sounding saturation and compressing if desired, but also allows the user the luxury of deciding to use only one stage if that is the only one that is relevant to their work. There are, and have been, a lot of "tape saturation" fads out there, and most of them are there to take people's money. I believe R2R/TB+/VTM-M2 are the right solution from one who has a love for the sound of tape and also wants to keep it easy to afford at any level. I think the sound speaks for itself.
As far as reviews, I don't post the personal comments I receive because I like to let things speak for themselves. It has been reviewed by Sound on Sound speaking positively about Nebula and VVKT, and I have received positive comments from world famous producers and engineers, and personally love hearing from people that use a real Revox side by side with R2R and say I nailed the sound. People that have the Sony have written saying how it sounds just like their machine. People that use the A800 have written and thanked me for the R2R machine and said it sounds right on. This is what makes it worth it.
I am certain that the UAD options are top notch. They have always been consistently good at their products and they offer a lot of tunable options under the hood. I think you get exactly what you need with the 3 stage approach and in the end it saves $, but if looking for a single machine at a higher price, you have the benefit with UAD of changing calibration etc and I am sure it sounds excellent!



Thanks For the Response!!! I Still Think Nebula Hands down has the Best 3D Sound Tone EQ Saturation, Pre amps, Consoles, Tapes Etc.. :D :D
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby richie43 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:53 pm

+ a million zillion to Michael Angel. I own everything he has ever released besides the hardware model I read about and haven't seen on his website lately, and use all of them at one time or another. Yes, there may be workflow advantages to using a simple algo plugin, but I have many years of all analog audio experience and the R2R/TB+/VTM-M2 triple threat truly sound remarkably "real" to me. He has even taken the time to help some of us understand this cool technology with personal emails and xml file tweaks!
I am sure that these other plugins sound good, some may sound great. If you are not concerned with realism then maybe one of these alternatives (that often just add "color" or low level noise to your audio!) will be enough. But if you want not only unusually realistic tape sound but also tape behavior, you may have a hard time doing better than CDSM's collections, as well as Rhythminmind's Nag and Studer and Henry Olonga's latest creations. Very very cool stuff. I use Sknote's Roundtone or ToneBooster's ReelBuss on tracks quite a bit, but I think of it more like a coloring process. But that is after I have batch processed each track of a project with console, tube, preamps, tapes.......
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby mr.tele » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:46 am

richie43 wrote:+ a million zillion to Michael Angel.


+ a million zillion and one! :)
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Henry Olonga » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:35 am

Michael's on the money and I agree with everything he has said. I love all his tapes - so well thought out and sound amazing. I look forward to his future productions.

I just wish the 'other guys' wouldn't spend so much time slagging off Neb. Nebula and VTM-M2 is just plain astounding. It can be taken as a backhanded compliment in a way that they would bother to take the time to slag off a product that they think is not as good as theirs. :lol:. One thing is for sure - value for money is not on their side - and they know that.

I kind of compare it to the sampled stuff from imperfect piano verses pianoteq. The sampled stuff just sounds alot more real although maybe not as playable or resource light. Each to their own.

The 'hype' is just a little irritating from some folks.......right I will keep my thoughts to myself now.
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby SWAN » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:49 pm

I think its important to remain balanced-even though I am very fond of AA and Nebula.
Nebula is a pain in the arse to use compared to algo plugs-so I can understand why people might want a more usable solution. By many accounts the Slate VTM does sound good.

However I do think Slate were naughty to use / abuse the 'kernal based' competitor in the way they did in their promo video. As Henry points out - its doubtless partly because they are aware that it is a stong competitor. Perhaps also due to the Alex B past...

Of course each developer makes claims their version is the best. I dont know what it is that makes Michael sure that his implementation of tape (VTM_M2) is better or more accurate than Fabrice. Purely being passionate about tape sound isnt really evidence-although its good to see Michael fight his corner. I just wish there was more marketing for R2R and the combined process.

I do trust my ears and of any processing in the box I always found Nebula to be non destructive to the integrity of the signal. I think it would be great if someone did a mix and compared the R2R studer, Tapebooster and VTMM2....with the Slate VTM.

I seem to remember it rather put to bed the UAD Studer on the UAD forum - and it could be rather good marketing for CDS...
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby Mercado_Negro » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:29 am

I processed some SSD4 drums with both plug-ins, Slate's VTM and Nebula. Zero extra processing, no eq, no comp, nothing, just tape. Nothing on the Master Track either.

ITB audio file (no VTM, no Nebula):
http://www.mediafire.com/?1m800hnulory464

One Nebula instance per track:

Kick: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost 96 Lo2 + VTM-M2 (-17dB Input/15dB Output, "Hi" setting)
Snare: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost 96 Lo2 (no VTM-M2 in this case, it "swallowed" it too much)
Hi-Hats: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost96Med1 + VTM-M2 (-7dB Input/-6dB Output, "Hi" setting)
Rack Tom L: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost 96 Lo2 + VTM-M2 (-17dB Input/15dB Output, "Hi" setting)
Rack Tom R: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost 96 Lo2 + VTM-M2 (-17dB Input/15dB Output, "Hi" setting)
Floor Tom: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost 96 Lo2 + VTM-M2 (-17dB Input/15dB Output, "Hi" setting)
Overheads: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost96Med2 + VTM-M2 (0.0dB Input/0.0dB Output, "Hi" setting)
Room: Studer_-15_15a + TapeBoost 96 Lo2 + VTM-M2 (0.0dB Input/0.0dB Output, "Hi" setting)

Nebula Audio File:
http://www.mediafire.com/?q337zn6ghon97ob


One VTM instance per track: (Bass Alignment: 0dB; Noise: -40dB; Wow & Flutter: zero percent)

Kick: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+2.6dB Input/-2.6dB Output)
Snare: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+4.1dB Input/-4.1dB Output)
Hi-Hat: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+7.2dB Input/-7.2dB Output)
Rack Tom L: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+5.4dB Input/-5.4dB Output)
Rack Tom R: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+4.2dB Input/-4.2dB Output)
Floor Tom: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+5.1dB Input/-5.1dB Output)
Overheads: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+8.5dB Input/-8.5dB Output)
Room: 2-inches 16 Tracks Machine @15ips and using the FG9 tape (+4.8dB Input/-4.8dB Output)

VTM Audio File:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1z8d9dvzis24218

All tracks were properly gain-staged (-3dBVU/0dBVU), except Room and Overheads which I usually don't gain-stage, using Klanghelm Audio VUMT for Nebula and VTM's own meters.

SSD4 tracks were individually rendered to prevent changes in dynamic, i.e., I worked on audio files.

If you need more info, please let me know.

Now let your ears be the judge... :)
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby SWAN » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:34 am

Thank you! now to listen...
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Re: Slate VTM VS Nebula R2R + Tape Boost ETC...

Postby mathias » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:07 am

great example! thanks for this.

compared to the unprocessed file:

the nebula/vtm-m2-processed mix keeps the balance between the different parts of the drumset. it sounds natural, gives some level to high frequencies.
brings up the room-sound of the recording. makes a big and deep image.

the slate-vtm processed file makes the sound sharp (reacts pretty strong to mid/midhigh sounds, accentuates transients). the bassdrum sounds flat and lifeless, the distortion is a bit too obvious. the roomimpression stays pretty much the same. overall it sounds pushing and a little sharp.


i personally like the nebula/vtm-m2-sound much better.
but i think to be fair, one should try to finetune the slate-vtm, to see what you can get. it seems, that some instances of the plugin were a little overdriven.
on the other hand this shows, what you can get "out of the box" without much tweaking.
let's see what others hear......

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