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Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby ericus » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:46 pm

Johnkenn wrote:Is it not kosher to mention which unit this sampled? I assume it's the same passive eq that came out for UAD?


That's the unit that was sampled... :mrgreen:

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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby Mercado_Negro » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:57 pm

tumburu wrote:The library is at 44.1kHz.


Thanks for the info.

@Velinas: You said this library as well as the expansion will be available at 96kHz, hence my question.
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby norburybrook » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:07 am

Yes i 've bought it thinking it was 96k, all the top end libs seem to be at 96k, is this going to happen?

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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby TranscendingMusic » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:35 am

Because of the Rate CRV, you really do not need the presets to be at 96, to be honest. If a developer uses quality converters, it will handle conversion beautifully at 44.1.
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby tumburu » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:38 am

I am happy because it is 44. Converting the programs every time you want to use Nebula is draw-backing. Not to mention projects load veeery slow.

This is just what the doctor ordered (for me).
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby Fishmac » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:36 am

Hi everyone!

This library was sampled with very superb equipment (Prism converters, vovox cables, etc.), so the SRC shouldn't be a problem when used at higher rates.
I was wondering about the percentage values as well, but the reason it was chosen instead of db values is - you could not believe the db values. Like the original unit, these programs will give you different peaks depending on the bandwith. There is a maximum of 20 db, which you get on 100% bandwith settings. But if you lower the bandwith, the amount of gain will differ. This is one reason why this eq is so different to other parametric concepts and of course is also a reason why it sounds so musical and smooth.
The same goes for the shelf filters. The amount of bandwith controls a boost at the frequency its set here, so you can go from a regular shelving filter to a strong attentuation of the chosen frequency.
These concepts combined give you a great possibility to combine curves in a way that allows rich soundsculpting.
The answer in short: There are no db values because you could not trust them.

Regards,

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Last edited by Fishmac on Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby mertayy » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:37 am

TranscendingMusic wrote:Because of the Rate CRV, you really do not need the presets to be at 96, to be honest. If a developer uses quality converters, it will handle conversion beautifully at 44.1.


I have a question regarding this, from what I see the shelve curves are as good as a standard min. phase eq looks at when working 96 khz. I have very light knowledge on how a plug-in eq works so my statement may not be true.

But besides that, is there an advantage to coloration (the nebula magic) when sampled at 96 khz?
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby analoginthebox.com » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:12 am

Thanks for sharing your opionions! We are happy that we finally released this EQ as it took really a very very long time to finish it.

Let's answer some of your questions:

would love a 10k pre version aka cd soundmaster's latest releases.

We could include that in the Expansion. I haven't sampled it yet but we'll give it a try. Not sure if it really makes sense (10k will be to much for sure) as you will get H1 damaged.

If so then thats crazy cos it doesn't even sound like it's boosting that high it's so smooth.

Yes, this is what makes this EQ so special. If you boost a very low ammount you sometimes even don't realize you are boosting! You bypass and you get the "aha effect".

Is the commercial library available at 96kHz?

I am sorry, but no! (See below for reasons)

Is it not kosher to mention which unit this sampled?

We can't answer, sorry. Use google and search for a "passive mastering equalizer" or something like that.

If I was picky I would have prefered the increments in db rather than percentage


[EDIT]
I see Fishmac already answered perfectly. Db values would absolutely make no sense for that EQ. It depends on the bandwidth setting. Another reason is: Even for same bandwidth settings the highest and lowest frequencies (22Hz/33Hz/16KHz/27KHz behave completely different to other settings). For that reason there is are no numeric values available on the orignal hardware as well.

Now to the 44.1 vs 96KHz topic.
Before we start sampling usually run a lot of converter tests. Starting from basic decisions like whether to use Prism Sound Orpheus / Apogee AD-16x or Lavry (black series). For this EQ we chose the Prism Sound.
No question that we tested at different sample rates.
And to be honest with you: The 96KHz sampling tests never sounded better than the 44.1 ones. Most of the time we were not able to tell any differences or even advantages in sampling @96KHz. But for some cases the 96KHz version sounded worse. This was the case especially when we kept the final programs @96KHz and used Nebula's rate CNV. But even using a decent tool to do the SR conversion of all samples and deconvolving @44.1 we had the same feeling again: No advantages at all. Combining what our ears told us together with the fact that most of our customers are working @44.1 we deceided to release this library as a native 44.1 library.

However, it absolutely makes sense to have programs @96KHz as well. Especially when you are working above 44.1. For this reason the expansion will be available. A strinking examples is the 27KHz setting on the hardware. It is necessary to have it sampled @96KHz, so we did.
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby TranscendingMusic » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:20 am

mertayy wrote:
TranscendingMusic wrote:Because of the Rate CRV, you really do not need the presets to be at 96, to be honest. If a developer uses quality converters, it will handle conversion beautifully at 44.1.


I have a question regarding this, from what I see the shelve curves are as good as a standard min. phase eq looks at when working 96 khz. I have very light knowledge on how a plug-in eq works so my statement may not be true.

But besides that, is there an advantage to coloration (the nebula magic) when sampled at 96 khz?


We can consider having an optimal sample rate. In fact what I am going to say here can be confirmed by A/D/A developer and guru Dan Lavry. If such a standard as
60KHz existed, it would be IDEAl. But, as we know it doesn't. Is 88.2 Khz good then? Well it can be, it's a bit over though. And 48 Khz is not a multiple of 44.1 Khz if you want to factor in SRC at the end of our mastering chains. This decision is more about compromise and less about fidelity, assuming a good quality converter.
First, the main aspects of why 60 Khz is ideal is because it is well above Nyquist as we know. But so is 44.1. Difference being that 60 Khz reconciles roll off due to ad-da conversions, speaker mechanics, and mikes when recording. Going to 60 doesn't completely remove these effects obviously but keeps the roll off less deep. So all in all, even at 44.1 you are still, in regards to capturing sonic reality, capturing the hearing range and fulfilling Nyquist which is all you need - again assuming using a quality converter - to capture audio fidelity. Now say you want to move to 96 Khz and above, now you are entering a realm of actually sampling
too fast. This attempt for more bandwidth is in vain for it's beyond what we hear. But more importantly, accuracy drops with distortion induction actually both in conversion and low frequency digital signal processing. So, with a higher sample rate preset you are looking at higher overhead/bigger file but more importantly the detrimental affects of the sampling process itself. Relying on the CNV rate allows for accurate capturing at 44.1 and smaller files for the compromise of slightly longer loading times (which I personally don't care about; once it loaded, it loads). Here's the key to all of this while also answering your question: when capturing/recording, 44.1 - since 60 does not exist (yet) - is plenty of bandwidth and more accurate. For processing, any local or manual up-sampling is beneficial, which the CNV rate change will allow. The benefits here are for processing specifically when dealing with non-linear processing & alias distortion.
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Re: Mammoth EQ - Now available for purchase

Postby prosodio » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:01 am

I´ve bought it yesterday, but didn´t get any link to download...
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