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Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby yr » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:59 pm

who do you believe? X that says Nebula src is terrible or Y that says the opposite? -it might be more simple (and much more conclusive) to test it for yourself. After all, nobody on the Acustica forum has your ears...
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby CoolColJ » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:12 am

I don't know about "little difference" - I do know the original at 96k has way more top end, even if I can't hear up there

And any aliasing will be filtered out once you downsample back to 44.1k on mastering, with a good convertor like Iztope RX

Working directly at 44.1k will definitely have more aliasing from everything you do, and oversampling does not sound as good as working at higher rates
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby RJHollins » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:51 am

As to the OP's original question ...

The issue would be ... Can a significant difference be heard between 88.2 and 96k sampling rate !?!?

Next ... if 44.1k is to be the final destination rate,
then we need to consider what every sample rate converter has to deal with.

From even the 'less stellar' converters, the rate change from 88.2 to 44.1 is about as simple as it can get, with minimal conversion induced issues. A 2:1 conversion.

Now when we convert 96 to 44.1, the conversion becomes a 2.17687075 ratio. This has no uncomplicated conversion process.

YES ... many of these hi end converters work well above the source and destination target rates, and involve complex mathematics in which to derive the bit values for the destination.

The bottom line ... there will be a difference ... that is the parameter results of 2 unrelated timing rates.

I'm not privy to the inside engine workings. For myself, I use 'r8brain Pro'. This is considered a good SRC app. Nonetheless, there are differences. Not necessarily deal breakers.

Sample rates are not the only downsizing we must deal with. I would much prefer staying in the 24 bit world, and wouldn't mind either 88.2 or 96k as the final destination.

As engineers, it is priority to maintain the highest quality to whatever media target we must package for.

This is similar to what is required from our mixes ... they must play well with others :)
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby sneaky » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:39 am

Can a significant difference be heard between 88.2 and 96k sampling rate

not to my ears
Can a significant difference be heard between 44.1 and 96k?
Yes. Night and day. Requires a lot of rendering out on my machine but its worth it
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby biomuse » Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:08 pm

RJHollins wrote:From even the 'less stellar' converters, the rate change from 88.2 to 44.1 is about as simple as it can get, with minimal conversion induced issues. A 2:1 conversion.

Now when we convert 96 to 44.1, the conversion becomes a 2.17687075 ratio. This has no uncomplicated conversion process.


sneaky wrote:Can a significant difference be heard between 88.2 and 96k sampling rate?

not to my ears
Can a significant difference be heard between 44.1 and 96k?
Yes. Night and day. Requires a lot of rendering out on my machine but its worth it.


Both correct and, taken together, exactly why instructing someone to upsample their entire 88.2 session (whose final destination will be 44.1) to 96 so that Nebula doesn't have to convert its kernel content from 96 to 88.2 is silly and irresponsible.

Whether the popular "Upsamplit!!!" is the correct answer or not depends on the actual situation.
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby dpclarkson » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:14 pm

I have lots of libraries that I've converted
from 96 to 48k inside NAT.
Would that make a difference?
I did this conversion for the sake of
loading times, but as I'm reading this thread,
I'm starting to think about moving to 96k for good.
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby Martinez » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:42 am

I've heard Nebula do some really bad things when doing it's src thing and have had to reload the whole project as a result.
At which point can you be sure that the library is sounding as it's supposed to?
When you are ready to print the mix are you sure that it really sounds as you mixed it to sound?
It's very easy to mix something untill it's to late and you have to reprint it all over again.
It's a very simple matter to up sample from 88 to 96 and if you use a decent SRC then it's fairly transparent aswell.
much more transparent than Nebula's SRC is or can be.
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby RJHollins » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:50 am

if you see a 'flashing arrow' next to the samplerate display on the main Nebula GUI ... then you know the conversion failed.
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby Martinez » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:00 am

RJHollins wrote:if you see a 'flashing arrow' next to the samplerate display on the main Nebula GUI ... then you know the conversion failed.



And thus better to just avoid any kind of Neb Src at all if possible.
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Re: Console and tape emulation at 88.2--is it worth it?

Postby edbilleaud » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:35 pm

I like to upsample everything to 96k (if it was not already recorded that way) using Izotope at highest quality setting, then mix and/or master, and output a 96k file, then downsample again using Izotope. After many A/B comparisons, on my system, this gives the best sound over any other conversion methods. YMMV.
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