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My Nebula Mixing System

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My Nebula Mixing System

Postby musicgreator » Tue May 15, 2012 12:56 pm

I just wanted to let you guys know, that i managed to build a mixing system based on two PCs plus one MAC for playback and production. I didn't have a big budget. This system allows me to run a huge amount of AlexB consoles and at least three other nebula effects on every channel, all in "realtime" (huge latency). I was experimenting for about a year and finally created that rather complicated system which basically allows me to mix with nebula in realtime! I will probably tell you more in the future but thats it for now.
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby Martinez » Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 pm

I look forward to hearing more about it.
Sounds very interesting.
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby babiuk » Tue May 15, 2012 11:51 pm

It would be nice to know about it, please let us know
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby elam » Wed May 16, 2012 1:22 am

musicgreator wrote:I just wanted to let you guys know, that i managed,Blah blah blah
musicgreator wrote:I will probably tell you more in the future but thats it for now.


What's the point ???? To make a pretty announcement ????
Do you want 'em to beg for more infos ?!? :roll:
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby RJHollins » Wed May 16, 2012 2:42 am

Probably having fun playing in the 'Land of Nebula'.
:lol:
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby musicgreator » Wed May 16, 2012 1:50 pm

Sorry guys for not completing the post, i didn't have more time but finally wanted to start talking about it.

In the beginning i tried to find a good data connection between my PCs because i thought it would improve the performance of nebulas server implementation and other connections i tried. I thought about infiniband, 10GBe, Thunderbold, USB3 etc...

The problem was also, that my Mac Pro didn't support cheap Lan NICs and all lan connections where very heavy on the CPU. I work in Logic btw. I tried wormhole as a insert in Logic and all kinds of different was wormhole could work but in the end it was way to unstable and you have to adjust each single instance of wormhole. Then i tried Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 which is very heavy on the host CPU (The big issue with VE Pro5 in logic is, that it forces the channels into live mode which needs way more CPU). I tried Netjack which was way too complicated... At this point i wanted to do it all in a insert manner. I wanted to have each channel come back from the external PCs into logic for further processing. The biggest issue became CPU distribution, in other words having enough resources on each PC to do what it's meant to do. Most audio over lan solutions where too heavy on the CPU.

At some point i realized that the only way to do what i want is to mix and summ all channels in a dedicated external mixing environment and come back stereo.

Then i discovered Reastream, the feature of Reaper for streaming audio over lan. It was the best and lightest on the CPU i tried. Unfortunately the Reastream plugin doesn't exist in AU format, so i knew i had to somehow go from Logic to Reaper on the same Mac to Reaper on the Mixing PC via Reastream and then get the 2Bus somehow back into Logic. On the mixing PC i use FX Teleport for Nebula etc. To go from Logic into Reaper on the same Mac i use Jack OSX. From there i have i send each channel via Reastream to Reaper on the Mixing PC. The mixing PC is clocked as a slave via Wordclock. I send the stereo bus back into logic via Adat (Because Reastream on the Mac can't receive audio, arrg!) Unfortunately Reaper on the mixing PC doesn't compensate for Nebulas latency so i had to use a sample delay plugin (voxengo) on each channel with 5 times the latency of nebula. Each time i insert a nebula instance i need to lower the delay accordingly (manual latency compensation) i made presets for each nebula plugin count for up to five nebulas (I tried to put ten nebulas on each channel as a default without any program loaded but that alone drove the cpu crazy). I made a template for the Mixing PC with all the Busses and channels i usually need and all its manual latency compensation.

So now i have a dedicated Template for Logic and both reapers. I have two PCs connected to the Mixing PC, one for AlexB consoles which get loaded automatically by the template (One Template for every console). And another PC for other VSTs, both connected via FX teleport and Gigabit Lan. I use 9000 jumbo packets for all Lan connections (Cat 6 Cables). And i control all PCs via real VNC. The audio over lan connections on the Mixing PC almost don't use CPU at all (about 10% in total) and this PC has enough PCI slots for LAN NICs etc. which is why i made it the center. The Mixing PC has enough resources to do a lot of nebula eqing etc. And on the FX Teleport connected PCs i load plugins which ideally don't need much tweaking because you can only tweak them on the PC they're loaded on... Mixing PC and Nebula Console PC are both over clocked I72600K with Asus and SSDs. The VST PC is I7 950 with asus and no SSD. Unfortunately Reastream uses about 50% of my Mac's CPU but the rest is enough for producing, recording etc. and i don't need to mix on the Mac at all anymore but i can still load additional plugins. It took very long to set it all up and make those templates but i just couldn't resist...


When Vienna ensemble works as it supposed to work, it may change it all. Or maybe even nebulas server implementation becomes the winner, who knows...
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby cpwade » Thu May 17, 2012 1:55 am

Bloody hell. You are brilliant and obsessive. I bet you create amazing mixes. Logic guy here too, I'll stick with tape and off line summing/processing until I can grow additional free time and brain cells.

A robust thank you for sharing you enthusiasm and excitement.
This is clearly the greatest and most complex work-around I have ever encountered.

Bless.
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby musicgreator » Thu May 17, 2012 11:08 am

cpwade wrote:Bloody hell. You are brilliant and obsessive. I bet you create amazing mixes. Logic guy here too, I'll stick with tape and off line summing/processing until I can grow additional free time and brain cells.

A robust thank you for sharing you enthusiasm and excitement.
This is clearly the greatest and most complex work-around I have ever encountered.

Bless.

Thanks! Well, things are probably much easier with PC only. One could probably do the same on a PC using FX Teleport.
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby babiuk » Thu May 17, 2012 7:24 pm

thanks for this explanation, how would it be with a single PC?
Could you try to let us know how to improve the workflow in a PC?
Thanks in advance ;)
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Re: My Nebula Mixing System

Postby musicgreator » Thu May 17, 2012 8:41 pm

babiuk wrote:thanks for this explanation, how would it be with a single PC?
Could you try to let us know how to improve the workflow in a PC?
Thanks in advance ;)


So you mean just a single PC without networking? Unfortunately i have no tips for improving the workflow. What exactly do you want to know? The thing is, that most PCs don't have enough power to handle nebula and all those other tasks. I didn't want to render because it kills my workflow and i can't change anything afterwards. What exactly do you want to know? You can try the new thing in the "Hardware like Nebula racks".
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