Login

Favourite console and tape programs?

Tips & tricks, working results, technical support

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby Barendse » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:24 pm

odd wrote:Bump - I finally got the R2R collection. Where do I start? I dread going through all of the programs. I'm looking for a transparent but punchy setting to put on all channels.


If you wanna be fast try something like Studer_-10_15b for tracks and OTR30-ATR 6b for the mixbuss.
Barendse
Vip Member
Vip Member
 
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby odd » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:03 pm

Barendse wrote:
odd wrote:Bump - I finally got the R2R collection. Where do I start? I dread going through all of the programs. I'm looking for a transparent but punchy setting to put on all channels.


If you wanna be fast try something like Studer_-10_15b for tracks and OTR30-ATR 6b for the mixbuss.


Sorry, totally unusable for me - way too much high freq roll-off.
odd
User Level VI
User Level VI
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:50 am

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby odd » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:16 pm

mordecainyc wrote:I suggest you should do a search on this forum, much has been written on this topic already recently. For instance, use "favourite r2r" as search term. Really, it is much faster doing a search than waiting for replies.

Or better yet - try them out and hear for yourself!


That search term yields one thread in the 3rd party libraries forum, and one thread in this forum (namely this one).

So far I've found that with the Studer programs, there's either too much high freq roll-off like from a LP filter, or a boost in the low treble with a roll-off higher. This is more than adequately confirmed by Budde's VST analyzer. Nothing transparent like I would expect from a high-end tape machine. I'm frankly a bit bummed by this.
odd
User Level VI
User Level VI
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:50 am

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby TranscendingMusic » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:36 pm

Transparent? From a tape machine?
.
If an engineer desires transparent then really they ought to stick to strictly a digital path (1:1) i.e no analog emulations or character plugins in the path.
.
The idea of lack of transparency itself doesn't tell us if something sounds good or not. It can denote two different things. For the sake of simplicity, there's good lack of transparency, that which enhances your signal to some degree while changing the signal perhaps even in a drastic way and there's bad which does the opposite of course.
.
Tape color is useful for its character and outweighs any percieved cons. Not to mention, further manipulation and masssaging is quite possible and appropiate after a signal hits tape. Even in audio engineering antiquity, when tape was the medium, enhancement after the fact was common-place. Such as a nice boost in the highs. This is well worth the price of admission of the other benefits of tape (after all it's not all just about frequency response). But afterall, there's a reason character plugins like tape plugins are highly sought after.
.
At any rate, transparency does not apply with character plugins, only the question "is this color and incidently the lack of transparency right for this track?" applies. Also, this is directed to anybody: don't go VST analyzer crazy!
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby odd » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:56 pm

TranscendingMusic wrote:Transparent? From a tape machine?
.
If an engineer desires transparent then really they ought to stick to strictly a digital path (1:1) i.e no analog emulations or character plugins in the path.
.
The idea of lack of transparency itself doesn't tell us if something sounds good or not. It can denote two different things. For the sake of simplicity, there's good lack of transparency, that which enhances your signal to some degree while changing the signal perhaps even in a drastic way and there's bad which does the opposite of course.
.
Tape color is useful for its character and outweighs any percieved cons. Not to mention, further manipulation and masssaging is quite possible and appropiate after a signal hits tape. Even in audio engineering antiquity, when tape was the medium, enhancement after the fact was common-place. Such as a nice boost in the highs. This is well worth the price of admission of the other benefits of tape (after all it's not all just about frequency response). But afterall, there's a reason character plugins like tape plugins are highly sought after.
.
At any rate, transparency does not apply with character plugins, only the question "is this color and incidently the lack of transparency right for this track?" applies. Also, this is directed to anybody: don't go VST analyzer crazy!


'Transparency' and 'character' aside, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect something approaching the frequency response of real studio tape machines with these programs, as that's what they're sampled from.
odd
User Level VI
User Level VI
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:50 am

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby TranscendingMusic » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Problem there is that "frequency response" is too broad of a concept when it comes to tape. Every machine is slightly different, tape makes slight differences, and the bias and how it's set makes differences. Make no mistake, the hardware counterparts will give you "non-transparent"
results as well. The fact that remains however is that they all still offer "tape" sound which is something sought after and the inital goal. The frequency response is part of the question of what character you are aiming for.
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby odd » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:07 pm

TranscendingMusic wrote:Problem there is that "frequency response" is too broad of a concept when it comes to tape. Every machine is slightly different, tape makes slight differences, and the bias and how it's set makes differences. Make no mistake, the hardware counterparts will give you "non-transparent"
results as well. The fact that remains however is that they all still offer "tape" sound which is something sought after and the inital goal. The frequency response is part of the question of what character you are aiming for.


A modern, well-maintained machine like the Studer equipped with quality tape should have a very neutral frequency response.
odd
User Level VI
User Level VI
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:50 am

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby TranscendingMusic » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:23 pm

You'll always have some kind of deviation...

Here's an Ampex MM1200/2-inch @ 30ips
ampex.gif
ampex.gif (12.48 KiB) Viewed 659 times


Here's another, Studer A820 half-inch 2-track @ 30:
STUDER.gif
STUDER.gif (11.91 KiB) Viewed 659 times


.
These brands somewhere else will have their own deviations, so on and so forth. One thing for sure, they all sound like tape.
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby highvoltage » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:46 pm

odd wrote:
mordecainyc wrote:I suggest you should do a search on this forum, much has been written on this topic already recently. For instance, use "favourite r2r" as search term. Really, it is much faster doing a search than waiting for replies.

Or better yet - try them out and hear for yourself!


That search term yields one thread in the 3rd party libraries forum, and one thread in this forum (namely this one).

So far I've found that with the Studer programs, there's either too much high freq roll-off like from a LP filter, or a boost in the low treble with a roll-off higher. This is more than adequately confirmed by Budde's VST analyzer. Nothing transparent like I would expect from a high-end tape machine. I'm frankly a bit bummed by this.



Actually the struder programs do the exact opposite what you describe. They boost the very high-end sometimes even 3 dB. No roll off whatsoever, only on a very few softer samples.

Just to make triple sure: If youre NOT using them in 96khz, make sure the conversion was succesful (with no blinking arrow) Cause what you describe sounds exactly like a 96khz high end response shifted down to 44khz..
At least on the 30ips programs.

Or we have different programs...
highvoltage
Member
Member
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:44 pm

Re: Favourite console and tape programs?

Postby odd » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:07 am

highvoltage wrote:
odd wrote:
mordecainyc wrote:I suggest you should do a search on this forum, much has been written on this topic already recently. For instance, use "favourite r2r" as search term. Really, it is much faster doing a search than waiting for replies.

Or better yet - try them out and hear for yourself!


That search term yields one thread in the 3rd party libraries forum, and one thread in this forum (namely this one).

So far I've found that with the Studer programs, there's either too much high freq roll-off like from a LP filter, or a boost in the low treble with a roll-off higher. This is more than adequately confirmed by Budde's VST analyzer. Nothing transparent like I would expect from a high-end tape machine. I'm frankly a bit bummed by this.



Actually the struder programs do the exact opposite what you describe. They boost the very high-end sometimes even 3 dB. No roll off whatsoever, only on a very few softer samples.

Just to make triple sure: If youre NOT using them in 96khz, make sure the conversion was succesful (with no blinking arrow) Cause what you describe sounds exactly like a 96khz high end response shifted down to 44khz..
At least on the 30ips programs.

Or we have different programs...


Alright, I hope that's the case. What blinking arrow?
odd
User Level VI
User Level VI
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:50 am

PreviousNext

Return to Working with Nebula

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests