Page 1 of 3

Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:47 pm
by SWAN
After seeing so many posts of people trying Nebula recently following the AU and also the positive drive following all the comparisons with UAD Studer - Im wondering:

Is it time that Nebula plugin and Nebula Reverb plugin are renamed to make it more obvious to the new user?

Something like "Nebula Low Latency"
and "Nebula" (previously Reverb)

So people understand its best to start with the 'Reverb' version and see it as the normal use/best practice version...

Surely the whole 'Reverb' nomenclature is outdated - it seems to confuse people...I think understandably...

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:53 pm
by sfunk
excellent point. I agree this would be a step in the right direction.

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:54 pm
by highvoltage
well... rename it then :)

more seriously, good point

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:28 pm
by ngarjuna
Pretty sure this would break backwards compatibility. Everyone's projects using dozens - hundreds of instances of Nebula Reverb would have to be re-instantiated. It's unfortunate that it's named as it is (and confusing I agree) but it's too late to change it without making a pretty major issue.

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:29 pm
by Plec
Hahahaha!
So THAT'S the difference? Low latency?

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:30 pm
by SWAN
presumably if opening old projects you could just move in the different named versions into the plugin folder?

Im not sure backwards compatibility is a good enough argument to retain this confusing system...

Renaming ourselves - this is precisely the point Im trying to make...Its great that Nebula can be adjusted but I think this type of thing should make sense from the get-go and not be confusing for new users of which there seem to be quite a few cropping up who are struggling...on issues that whilst are obvious to seasoned members of the 'club' - are confusing to new people...

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:57 pm
by ngarjuna
SWAN wrote:presumably if opening old projects you could just move in the different named versions into the plugin folder?

Im not sure backwards compatibility is a good enough argument to retain this confusing system...

Renaming ourselves - this is precisely the point Im trying to make...Its great that Nebula can be adjusted but I think this type of thing should make sense from the get-go and not be confusing for new users of which there seem to be quite a few cropping up who are struggling...on issues that whilst are obvious to seasoned members of the 'club' - are confusing to new people...


Well backwards compatibility is pretty compelling. If I have clients come in that need to make changes to an old project and I have to putz around with reinstantiating plugins that would have otherwise been retained that's either extra cost to my clients or, more likely, time I'm going to have to eat. For any working professional that's not a desirable situation.

It's also a lot more than just old projects when you say "backwards compatibility". I personally have 100s of Nebula instances setup as FX chains in REAPER (which took many, many hours to get setup) just as another example.

Compare the amount of time veterans have invested in setup to the time it would take new users to read a sticky in the forums which did a decent job explaining the two plugins, there's no comparison in terms of the amount of hassle and difficulty.

I assure you I understand that it gets old explaining the whole "Reverb" instance thing over and over, I've been a Nebula user and forum regular since Spring 08, I'm just as tired of explaining the awkward naming as anyone. But that's a pretty small price to pay compared to making huge interruptions to the workflow of dedicated (and invested) users.

If it's as simple as just renaming "Nebula Latency.dll" to "Nebula Reverb.dll", then sure, that's not a big deal. But if it would indeed break backwards compatibility requiring all those time investments to be made again, that's not at all okay.

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:55 am
by SWAN
yes you make some good points...I sympathise with your position. However Im not sure I agree with the concept of holding on to antiquated systems and hold back the progression of a product for the sake of some short term hassle-these issues are not insurmountable IMO.

My issue is not about how tiresome it is to explain it to people...its more about presenting a cohesive package that makes sense...things have to change to move forward-and I personally think those changes should be oriented toward the greater good of providing an easy to use product that doesnt suffer the negative PR of constantly having users struggling with the basic concepts...

Nebula is such an awesome product - but some small changes could make it seem like less of a 'clique' crowd where you have to know the secret tricks to get the best out of it...
I would like to see some small changes in the direction of usability rather than keeping things stagnant for the sake of our community...

As a regular Nebula acolyte - sometimes it gets frustrating having to defend nonsensical elements of Nebula like this - when trying to explain to people the positives...I mean - could anything be more confusing than when you install it the actual name of the Nebula Reverb plugin isnt meant to be exclusively for Reverb - but for general usage? This is the first fence here that there is already a hurdle for a new user to make sense of!

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:07 pm
by giancarlo
we can't change names any more... They were a bit unfortunate. First name was "nebula2" for our betatesters. When we implemented FFT, we added a big latency version named "nebula2 reverb". At the beginning it was the only purpose of that version. We replicated the name schema to nebula3. So we are following backward compatibility till early 2006

SWAN is right. There are 2 possible ways: microsoft and apple. Microsoft doesn't change anything and keeps backward compatibility EVER. This is the most important thing for them: backward for developer tools, backward for clients, customers, companies... Apple continuously changes things here and there, making things "deprecated" quite often.
We could change names easily now, but there would be an incredible amount of confusion because many guys couldn't load old projects any more without renaming manually DLL, VST and COMPONENTs.

Re: Nebula Reverb - time for a name change?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:36 pm
by SWAN
giancarlo wrote:we can't change names any more... They were a bit unfortunate. First name was "nebula2" for our betatesters. When we implemented FFT, we added a big latency version named "nebula2 reverb". At the beginning it was the only purpose of that version. We replicated the name schema to nebula3. So we are following backward compatibility till early 2006

SWAN is right. There are 2 possible ways: microsoft and apple. Microsoft doesn't change anything and keeps backward compatibility EVER. This is the most important thing for them: backward for developer tools, backward for clients, customers, companies... Apple continuously changes things here and there, making things "deprecated" quite often.
We could change names easily now, but there would be an incredible amount of confusion because many guys couldn't load old projects any more without renaming manually DLL, VST and COMPONENTs.


thanks for chiming in Giancarlo

I wonder how difficult it would be to have a old name .dll or .component outside the VST/Component folder for old projects?

I guess for me Im not a professional audio engineer so opening old projects is not a big deal for me...and spending a few minutes before moving plugins doesnt turn me off....