Login

vu meters reading 0

Tips & tricks, working results, technical support

vu meters reading 0

Postby babiuk » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:57 pm

Hi,
I´m trying to get working properly a VU meter in order to control the gain staging and do the things better. The help all of you give in that forum is so great so I´m going to ask you for help in that matter.
I´ve been reading posts about that and I downloaded (I don´t remember who was the uploader but thanks anyway) a sound file for a -18dbfs signal test and the tests I did were for that file.

In the cubase master meter it reads -18 and this is OK.
In psp vu it reads 0 if I set it to be 0 at -18, as expected

but other meters are not reading the expected 0, they are:

-naiant VU-dual(recommended here from a forum member)
I've set it to -18 but it reads -3. To get 0 I must set it to -21!!!

-nebula with the skin Bluesman black has a vu meter and it reads between -1 and -2. I didn´t load any program just init and didn´t touch faders. The meters in the master page are set to 4rms 17.

-And the IXL meter set to k-system (K-14 indeed) reads -4.
I find this reasonable cos the k-system is for that, but is this expected?


So please maybe I´m very ignorant but I´d thank any help in this in order to learn about this big diferences and if they are logical and why.

Thanks in advance
User avatar
babiuk
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:16 am

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby giancarlo » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:29 pm

a normalized 1Khz sine tone should produce -3dB rms. This value is the value required by many libraries. Check a sine tone and compare with the displayed values in INIT program (look at lcd only).
User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
 
Posts: 9147
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby Mercado_Negro » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:10 am

I don't know why Naiant VU-dual shows -3dB when it's set to -18dB. Maybe its developer used a different scale but PSP Vintage Meter and IXL Meter are both OK (the latter reads -4dB because you're using a K-14 scale, that's fine). All AlexB's libraries will read correctly -18dBFS with the test tone I posted here somewhere but most CDSoundMaster's won't because they're edited different. I'd stick with PSP Vintage Meter and just make sure the needle don't go over 0dBVU.

Cheers
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby babiuk » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:04 pm

Thanks for the replies.

So the in/out meters in nebula are customized for every program by the developers, isn´t it?

So I can say that when in an alexb program the needle is at 0 in the vumeter(my skin has vu) this means that the audio is -18dbfs, is this true?
And in CDsoundmaster programs there is no relation between audio level and vumeter, the 0dbfs is at the end of the meter, yes?
User avatar
babiuk
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:16 am

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby TranscendingMusic » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:58 pm

babiuk wrote:Thanks for the replies.

So the in/out meters in nebula are customized for every program by the developers, isn´t it?

So I can say that when in an alexb program the needle is at 0 in the vumeter(my skin has vu) this means that the audio is -18dbfs, is this true?
And in CDsoundmaster programs there is no relation between audio level and vumeter, the 0dbfs is at the end of the meter, yes?


The meters in Nebula are displaying full scale so be mindful there. IF a dev indicates a "0" for their presets, follow that. 0 on a full scale meter is 0, so you don't want to be working near it. 0 on a VU is dependent on what you calibrate it to. So on the Nebula itself, if -18 is stated by the dev, go with around -18 on those meters. Calibrate your vu meter for -18dbFS = 0, and you're golden.
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby Mercado_Negro » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:33 pm

babiuk wrote:Thanks for the replies.

So the in/out meters in nebula are customized for every program by the developers, isn´t it?


Yes, in most cases they are.

babiuk wrote:So I can say that when in an alexb program the needle is at 0 in the vumeter(my skin has vu) this means that the audio is -18dbfs, is this true?


Don't follow the needles but the values IN the mini LCD:

Image

And in CDsoundmaster programs there is no relation between audio level and vumeter, the 0dbfs is at the end of the meter, yes?[/quote]

Correct, there's no apparent relation but Michael's said 0dBFS = 0dBVU for his programs so I think you can just use your DAW meters.
i7 3770k :: Asus P8H77-V LE :: 16Gb DDR3 @1600MHz :: Geforce GT 520 :: OCZ-Vertex 128Gb :: WD Black Series 1Tb and Green Series 1Tb :: F*******e Liquid56 :: REAPER 64bit and StudioOne 64bit (both latest versions) :: Win 10 64bit
User avatar
Mercado_Negro
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby babiuk » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:05 pm

thanks for the answers.

Ok with the advice about looking just the lcd levels, but it´s a pity the VU meters are not reliable at all. Indeed I tried an alex program with the -18 test signal and the needle was not at 0 in the VU althugh the lcd did say the correct value, -18.

I think I´ll have to keep using just the PSP as vumeter.
User avatar
babiuk
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:16 am

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby TranscendingMusic » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:59 pm

babiuk wrote:thanks for the answers.

Ok with the advice about looking just the lcd levels, but it´s a pity the VU meters are not reliable at all. Indeed I tried an alex program with the -18 test signal and the needle was not at 0 in the VU althugh the lcd did say the correct value, -18.

I think I´ll have to keep using just the PSP as vumeter.


Those are not VU meters, they are reading dBFS. "0" is a reference not an absolute value in and of itself.
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby babiuk » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:52 pm

Ok, thanks again, I didn´t understand, so they are just graphic objects with the look of VU and the scale showed in them has no sense, the only sense is that the right side extreme is 0 dbfs, yes?
User avatar
babiuk
User Level XI
User Level XI
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:16 am

Re: vu meters reading 0

Postby TranscendingMusic » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:30 pm

babiuk wrote:Ok, thanks again, I didn´t understand, so they are just graphic objects with the look of VU and the scale showed in them has no sense, the only sense is that the right side extreme is 0 dbfs, yes?


It's probally more of an implementation thing than anything else. But in general I'd use the dBFS scale for an important reason. A Vu meter won't show you your peaks which in a digital system is not forgiving. The 0 dBFS is something that's realiable of course. If you hit it "red" then you know you've gone too far. Operating level is always a safe range. So use the lcd values and try to hover around -18. Every signal is different because of rms values i.e an electric guitar will be different than a snare even if with the same peak value read outs. Staying around -18 will be safe.
mixing | mastering
Win 10 x64 | Sonar Platinum x64 | 3930K(OC)
User avatar
TranscendingMusic
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 am
Location: USA

Next

Return to Working with Nebula

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: giancarlo, philou72 and 3 guests