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Transient loss

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Re: Transient loss

Postby Cupwise » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:06 pm

the prog rate is connected with kernel length, so to get a faster prog rate you need less kernel length. often when you change one the other is going to change automatically along with it. they both effect the end result you get in different ways.

all my understanding on prog rate is, is that you need faster prog rates for more accurate compression/dynamic behavior. my wording might not be 100% correct, but this is my understanding. there may be more to it also. i think the prog rate is one thing (if not THE thing) keeping nebula from handling instant compression/limiting (and therefore also squashed tape or overdriven tube effects).

i have some progs i made from overdriving cassette tape, and i was messing with them and lowered prog rate/kern length down really low, and got 'squashed drums' similar to what you would see if the drums went to the actual tape that hot. the sound was off, but the compression/amp envelope behavior was closer (looked like limited/squashed drums through an oscilloscope). since the kern length is so low though, the sound gets mangled.

so i think basically you have- longer kern length= more accurate frequency response, smaller length/faster prog rate= more accurate dynamic behavior.

the programs you get from 3rd parties and acustica themselves are set to be in the comfortable middle zone, but of course you can tweak those settings yourself for your own experimental uses... you are basically then going away from the intended 'safe' settings of those effects. kind of like overclocking a cpu...
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Re: Transient loss

Postby fredrikberg » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:24 pm

Thanks for the explanation. Do you know how Offset is related to the sound as well.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby dpclarkson » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:41 pm

Just did a quick test with 76D;
the sound is more focused and the dynamic
behaviour seems less 'messy'.
Can anyone confirm this, just to know it's
not in my head.
Would the dynamics of preamps/tape/tube also
benefit from the evf17-parameter?
Everything seems to sound more snappy, more
real and more focused.
The TIME and FREQD don't also null, so it's
not a complete mindf*ck.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Cupwise » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:02 pm

fredrikberg: i don't know anything about offset or what exactly it does.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:15 pm

dpclarkson wrote:Just did a quick test with 76D;
the sound is more focused and the dynamic
behaviour seems less 'messy'.
Can anyone confirm this, just to know it's
not in my head.
Would the dynamics of preamps/tape/tube also
benefit from the evf17-parameter?
Everything seems to sound more snappy, more
real and more focused.
The TIME and FREQD don't also null, so it's
not a complete mindf*ck.


:D

When I first started tweaking nebula , i didn't really know what I was doing ,But after a while things start to make sense . I think the manual could do with a revision of some sort.
Evf 17 seems to make everything sound cleaner on the transient , less mud. It makes sense that it would sound good on everything. Last year I asked G what it excatly was . He said evf 17 is like a debugged rms 17




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Re: Transient loss

Postby fpoitevin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:33 pm

In my understanding, rms 17, evf 17,... are only metering algos. How could this change the sound ??
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:14 pm

Go to edit page ,then evf page .You can tweak the evf there.
I think the meter selection is on the master page? can't remember.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby jrasia » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:26 am

I have to admit, after further tinkering and A/Bing my mixes today, the TIMED engine is spectacular.

Its too bad its so taxing on my i7. Near impossible to build a multitrack mix at this computational level. I know I was warned ;)

I suppose if there is an up side, I actually prefer using SPLIT mode.
It still feels like something is lacking in the low end on a pure TIMED engine set for 10ms. Much better than the default 2ms however. I think its been said that TIMED can be edited to go even further than 10ms, but I don't have a fire extinguisher near my computer.

I was doubtful at fist, but damn, I didn't realize I wasn't using Nebula too its full potential. I always thought there was a little energy missing from my mixes. Now its back!

Thank you all
Last edited by jrasia on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby musicgreator » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:56 pm

The buttons in nebula are a bit confusing. So in KERN page should it read SPLITH or CLASSIC for the high quality settings? When it reads CLASSIC, am i in classic mode or do i get into classic mode when i klick it? What about the FADE settings, any tweaks there? Ans should it read ECONO or NORMAL? So a short length on TIMED will cut low frequencies? What woud be the optimal length for the full spectrum?
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Re: Transient loss

Postby fpoitevin » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:05 pm

The conclusion seems to be that in the KERN page, the toggling buttons show were you go if you click, not the current state.

To understand these timed, freqd and fade parameters and the low frequency cut, we would need someone to explain how it works precisely. The firsts questions would be :
- If you have a string track playing a 10 seconds note thru, let's say, a LogicEQ, were are the 2,2 ms in timed and 50 ms in freqd for the clean kernel ? Is there a 52,2 ms process that is looped every ProgRate time ? How is it related to the low cut frequency ?
- In the KERN page, what is the meaning of the (1) or (2) on the clean line just before the time length ?
- in the EVF page what is the "Env type" that every one want to put to EVF17 ? In a compressor prog, it seems to react as the detector for the sidechain, but in an EQ, what is it for ?
- And all the other parameters ...

In fact, we tweak parameters by ear without understanding what we do, precisely. We would save time understanding a little bit more.

With Nebula we have a great tool, now we need a great teacher and/or a comprehensive doc.

Thanks everyone !
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