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Transient loss

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Re: Transient loss

Postby david1103 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:44 pm

been geeking out all day on this, discovered quite a lot. listening on decent system using benchmark dac1.

i have souped up my doc fear eq (last no protection version update with 90ms clean kernal) to have full TIMED 90ms kernals on clean and 10ms TIMED distortion (max they can, same length as original in FREQD) all in TIMED, no FREQD allowed!

difference is **amazing**, these tweaks are far too big to stay hidden on this thread. its like getting nebula 4 for free! :D

measured sine wave at 1k in span on EQ programs and there seems to be no increase in aliasing switching to TIMED! (unlike preamps) On preamps switching between FREQD and TIMED increases aliasing quite a bit, but the results are always under 100dB.

read a post by andy, programmer of the glue, saying aliasing NEEDS to be under 100dB to be good quality, down to 120dB for very best. of course switching nebula to 96k reduces aliasing quite a bit, but that's not happening for a while with these TIMED tweaks.

also switching to ENV 17 improves the dynamics even further than switching to TIMED.... on eq's!?

i would conclude saying TIMED is SO much better than FREQD that i have no interest in FREQD anymore, going to get a new PC asap :)

Bit concerned about the preamp distortion kernals seeming to go a bit aliased/messed up in TIMED. can this be improved?

i had no idea nebula EQ's were effecting the dynamics so much until i did todays listening tests. just switching on Doc Fear with no actual EQ in FREQD = reduction in transients and makes the sound more cloudy/grainy. switching the ENV to ENV 17 restores a lot of the transient/dynamics, switching to TIMED on all kernals totally sorts out dynamics and drastically increases fidelity!

someone posted they had problems modding EQ's? could they elaborate, seems fine on doc fear and the alexb pultec one.

gian, how optimised is TIMED? could it be programmed to use the INTEL acceleration libraries like FREQD is?

i was listening for too long i think, does anyone agree or disagree with my finding, maybe i lost it somewhere? :o got to stop this obsessing!
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:54 pm

In my original post I said that moving to evf17 improved everything but now i'm not so sure .

Rms17 sounds very good for saturation programs it has good texture. Evf has good dynamics in eq's .Evf17 has a more compressed sound on eq's and pre's ,it seems to limit the dynamics and transients.
I was looking at transending musics compressors and he uses peak on the evf page on the green , and avr on his new one . So selecting a correct evf is quite important to the original hardware, Like Bob says .Bob's libarys I think are under rated , He's compression libarys sound great as does vcult!

Yes, I can't use freqd player anymore , I've been using these tweaks for about a year now. The funny thing is It states these in the manual but its not that clear .So its no real secret!!


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Re: Transient loss

Postby RJHollins » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:18 am

ahhh ... you guys are pushing me to try this :roll:
:lol:

Big question ... [so as NOT to screwup the original patch].

Its' been said to make a backup copy of the original
'Program' patch to be safe ... then use the 'copy' to
experiment with.

THE question.

CAN we have 2 versions of the patch available ???

In other words ... keep the original patch [name] for. what we would call everyday use, AND ALSO have a second
patch [maybe add HQ to the filename] so that:

1. we can quickly A/B test compare.

2. That when we render, we load up the 'HQ' version and
re-enter the values.

What I don't know is how the patch naming is distinguished within NEBULA main GUI.

Thanks for any clarifications/instructions ... hints
and tips .... winning lottery numbers you don't want ... hey, did I leave out anything :shock:
:lol:

Thanks!
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:45 am

you can try it without hitting save,go for it!!
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Re: Transient loss

Postby RJHollins » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:37 am

timp wrote:you can try it without hitting save,go for it!!


no no ...

THE question.

CAN we have 2 versions of the patch available ???
Simply by modifying the filename [add an HQ, for example].

reason being ... need to A/B the mod to the original.

Second ... IF the mod is what's been described, AND
that the CPU hit is too :shock: Then I would need two working versions.

First ... da fundamental question :)
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Re: Transient loss

Postby voidar » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:21 pm

Ok.

In timed mode, setting all to max (30ms) classic mode (worked in split mode too though)

For preamps.

Have you tried setting the envelope follower to peak and turning of smoothing?

This looks very clean under the scope where I am at. Just tone and harmonics.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby indelible » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:01 pm

When I try the settings suggested on page 6 with the nag tape 15 program I got some click on the first transient.I try it on a kick drum loop and on a bass.Any advice?
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Re: Transient loss

Postby yr » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:09 pm

I don't think it's wise to turn off smoothing when you are using the presmps/tapes, because you will get clicks/artifacts whenever kernels are switched. Many EQ presets are not using smoothing because they are not dynamic/multilayered.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Cupwise » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:27 pm

yes, yr (who seems to be becoming quite the nebula expert ;) ) is right. programs will look cleaner in something like vstanalyser if you turn off smoothing, but it can lead to artifacts with dynamic programs.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby voidar » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:35 pm

Well, that might be, but if you use SPLITH mode SMOOTH will be turne to off.

From the manual:
"5 – SMOOTH
This parameter represents the smoothing algorithm. This mode is useful for minimizing distortion and
aliasing for the H1 kernel. There are 21 different algorithms available. When activated an additional
kernel player called S is instantiated. The player is shared with Split-hybrid, so the two modes cannot
be active at the same time."
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