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Transient loss

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Re: Transient loss

Postby fredrikberg » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:38 pm

giancarlo wrote:yes you are correct. Imho freqd doesn't sound as much correct as timed but it's used just for the tail. Freqd is the classic fft algo used by best plugins around, so it's not so bad


Is that in split mode?. (when it reads Classd)
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Re: Transient loss

Postby fredrikberg » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:49 pm

Also, To get the best from reverbs should I use split mode with all 3 timed kernels set to 10ms.

...And is there a way to make these settings the default for all my programs or do I have manually edit and save them.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:57 pm

You'll need to use split mode and freqd player on harmonics for reverbs because the samples are so long.

Split mode -classc will show on screen

classc- split will show on screen

It's a bit confusing, the same for normal and economy quality.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby fredrikberg » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:34 pm

Wouldn´t it be great with a "Render" mode. Like with the Glue where you can set oversampling in rendering, but normal in realtime.

One could set "Split mode with 10ms kernels on timed and Evf17" as render mode.

I just did all these changes to an old mix and it turned out soo much better.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby babiuk » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:28 am

I´m reading this topic and I find it highly interesting because I can see I am not using Nebula benefits at 100%.
Anyway it´s a bit confusing to me. Could you help me to understand?
When I read this:
One could set "Split mode with 10ms kernels on timed and Evf17" as render mode.


Can I assume (CPU costs apart) that this is the best nebula setup for every preset?
And... is better (again CPU costs apart) using nebula reverb all the time instead nebula?
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:10 am

Well i was going to start a new thread on this ,but worried that it might get confusing to new users.

nebula regular to me sounds better than reverb version for eqs, tapes and pre sort of sampling ,i don't know why this is.

In general you want to stick to timed rather than freqd for higher quality. That also could mean switching off split mode because the first part of the sample is played by timed then the rest is freqd. For example 2.2ms on timed then the rest on freqd.

If you wanted to play the same length sample in timed as freqd , say the original was 50ms in
freqd, you could edit the xml to go up to 50ms

If your working at 96k your computer will probably

fry! :lol:

thus why nebula has the split feature to bring down the cpu.

A high quality Rendering mode would be good as just
mentioned.
oh and the change to evf 17 should not effect cpu .

If you look at cdsoundmasters Q8 and tube booster on the evf page , they use evf 17, so its not just for compressors!!
Last edited by Tim Petherick on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby ericus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:55 am

Thank you for all those tips!

Does this mean we need to these changes on the programs themselves or we create a copy of the Nebula.dll and modify the associated xml file?
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Re: Transient loss

Postby Tim Petherick » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:06 am

In order to get up to 50ms in timed mode you need to edit the xml thats all. it will look like this-
<LTIMED> 30000 </LTIMED> change it to <LTIMED> 50000 </LTIMED>

for the actual timed arrow tweak etc, you need to edit each program, its not a global tweak.
if you edit programs you'll lose the original settings of the program, so only edit if your sure.

I only do these tweaks for myself and wanted to share them.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby enriquesilveti » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:47 am

evf 17 in evf page.


YES. EVF 17 is the last EVF mode developed. If you have a nuclear PC you can use more and more TIMED engine, we add FREQD engine just to play long kernels from EQs/Reverbs in current PCs. You can SAVE AS programs (N2P files only) from each emulation program with different name before edit in NAT or in Nebula. Maybe Giancarlo can make a patch for auto edit in NAT, request to him...

Envelope follower in Nebula
An envelope detector is sometimes referred to as an envelope follower in musical environments. It is still used to detect the amplitude variations of an incoming signal to produce a control signal that resembles those variations.
Nebula use an envelope follower to translate incoming amplitude audio signal into a value that help to select the correct kernel that will process the incoming signal with the correct filter but this filter has a length that is more than one sample that is the reason that Nebula or any signal modeling processor can emulate correctly a peak limiter with out introduce audible distortion.
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Re: Transient loss

Postby fredrikberg » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:14 pm

babiuk wrote:I´m reading this topic and I find it highly interesting because I can see I am not using Nebula benefits at 100%.
Anyway it´s a bit confusing to me. Could you help me to understand?
When I read this:
One could set "Split mode with 10ms kernels on timed and Evf17" as render mode.


Can I assume (CPU costs apart) that this is the best nebula setup for every preset?
And... is better (again CPU costs apart) using nebula reverb all the time instead nebula?


I asked about this because I felt some transient loss, and with these tweaks it sounds SO much better.
I think the initial transient of a sound is the most important for separating things in a mix and also for really feeling a room in drum room microphones etc...

I don´t understand all the parameters in Nebula but it seems to me that when (in Kern page) you set timed to 10ms and point the arrows to Freqd you get timedplayer for the first 10ms and freqdplayer for the rest, so the critical part of the sound is processed by the most accurate player.

I felt when doing this tweak to VXNT plate reverb there was a difference in the reverb "impact", glued better with the source in some way.

Im very happy for all the help I have got.
Thank you!

Regards

Fredrik Berg
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