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Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby cmcknet » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:00 am

Brilliant Paul... thanks for the great in-depth advice. I haven't upgraded to Lion as I prefer Snow Leopard which is a bonus. I see clearer now where the workflow differences are from what I'm doing now. I have a long way to go before fully understand everything but hopefully I'll get the sound I'm after with Nebula and change workflow to get the best out of the program.

Thanks for your time, I needed to hear this to help me make up my mind and also know that when I'm unsure, there are people here willing to lend an ear.

Best wishes
Craig
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby cpwade » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:31 am

Absolutely. Any time.
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby idrummer » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:59 am

Hi everybody.
Reading this post made take the decision of making a very deep test about the whole Nebula 3 VST vs. AU and VST vs. AU (wrapper).
So to make sure all settings were correct I first saved them as presets and then loaded and re-checked just in case. So I can say that I'm 100% sure that all settings were exactly the same.
I started comparing VST and AU inside Peak 6.1. Testing a stereo file with a band playing. There I used two instances of Neb 3 Rev VST and two AU:
-One EQ from Alexb MLC
-One Compressor from Alexb 4KD
Here in the pictures you can tell that both are performing basically the same and as we are talking about analog stuff the little differences between them can be considered normal. So , for me VST and AU version of Nebula 3 Pro sound the same! :P
VST left, AU right:
vst-au.png
vst-au
vst-au.png (49.12 KiB) Viewed 628 times


About CPU I must say that both of them have the same CPU consume as one can see in the pictures:
VST CPU left; AU CPU right :
vst-auCPU.png
vst-au CPU
vst-auCPU.png (15.53 KiB) Viewed 628 times


After that I did a test into Digital Performer 7.24 and compared AU and VST (wrapped with FXpansion)
This time I used:
-Three EQ from Alexb MLC.
-One Nebula's library reverb.
-One compressor from AITB (Fate)
-One Limiter from Alexb GMD.

So, this is what I've got.
Using the EQ's both AU and VSTWrapped sounded the same, there were insignificant differences (the same as VST and AU test)
Using the reverb gave the same results, sounded the same...

Now here is my concern and I would definitely suggest that the wrapped VST is not that well wrapped and I would not recommend to use it instead of AU. :o
As you can see in the pictures when using the compressors and limiters the wrapped version behaved really weird, considering that I was applying quite a lot compression setting threshold at -10 db in both, compressor and limiter.
AU version did what it was supposed to do, I mean, it compressed the signal , but VST (as you can see) didn't and further more it gave the track even more signal (like expanding instead of compressing), plus the sound was awful!! :shock:
VSTWrapped left; AU right:
vstwrap-au comp-lim.png
vstwrap - au Comp-Lim
vstwrap-au comp-lim.png (49.66 KiB) Viewed 628 times


About the CPU, I didn't notice any difference between them, basically it was the same as the VST -AU test, or at least a difference that would justify using the wrapped VST.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby musicgreator » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:10 pm

Well, i forgot to say, that i use logic. So the wrapped version worked better in Logic and ther server funktion didn't work at all with the au. Maybe one of the updates solved that, i'm not shure. Your discovery about the compression behavior with the wrapped version is shocking. I wonder if that's the same if the wrapped vst connects to a PC server...
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby giancarlo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:10 pm

au and vst share the same dsp code, so I don't have a clue about that
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby cmcknet » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:40 pm

idrummer wrote:Hi everybody.
Reading this post made take the decision of making a very deep test about the whole Nebula 3 VST vs. AU and VST vs. AU (wrapper).
So to make sure all settings were correct I first saved them as presets and then loaded and re-checked just in case. So I can say that I'm 100% sure that all settings were exactly the same.
I started comparing VST and AU inside Peak 6.1. Testing a stereo file with a band playing. There I used two instances of Neb 3 Rev VST and two AU:
-One EQ from Alexb MLC
-One Compressor from Alexb 4KD
Here in the pictures you can tell that both are performing basically the same and as we are talking about analog stuff the little differences between them can be considered normal. So , for me VST and AU version of Nebula 3 Pro sound the same! :P
VST left, AU right:
vst-au.png


About CPU I must say that both of them have the same CPU consume as one can see in the pictures:
VST CPU left; AU CPU right :
vst-auCPU.png


After that I did a test into Digital Performer 7.24 and compared AU and VST (wrapped with FXpansion)
This time I used:
-Three EQ from Alexb MLC.
-One Nebula's library reverb.
-One compressor from AITB (Fate)
-One Limiter from Alexb GMD.

So, this is what I've got.
Using the EQ's both AU and VSTWrapped sounded the same, there were insignificant differences (the same as VST and AU test)
Using the reverb gave the same results, sounded the same...

Now here is my concern and I would definitely suggest that the wrapped VST is not that well wrapped and I would not recommend to use it instead of AU. :o
As you can see in the pictures when using the compressors and limiters the wrapped version behaved really weird, considering that I was applying quite a lot compression setting threshold at -10 db in both, compressor and limiter.
AU version did what it was supposed to do, I mean, it compressed the signal , but VST (as you can see) didn't and further more it gave the track even more signal (like expanding instead of compressing), plus the sound was awful!! :shock:
VSTWrapped left; AU right:
vstwrap-au comp-lim.png


About the CPU, I didn't notice any difference between them, basically it was the same as the VST -AU test, or at least a difference that would justify using the wrapped VST.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers


Very informative idrummer... I wonder if all DAWS experience the same.

Cheers
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby musicgreator » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:20 pm

What bothers me is, that connections to the nebula server use so much cpu. One instance of nebula connected to a server needs about half as much cpu as a native instance. I hope, the server implementation will get more efficient in the future. How efficient is cuda with respect to the cpu?
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby idrummer » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:40 am

giancarlo wrote:au and vst share the same dsp code, so I don't have a clue about that


Right. There were no difference between VST and AU when I was testing them. Basically both had the same behavior and sounded the same. That's why I'm saying the VST to AU converter does something wrong and as result the wrapped version doesn't work as supposed.
At least into DP7.24.

I'll try later the same into Peak 6.1 and let you know if I get same results as DP 7.24
Cheers.
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby cpwade » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:30 pm

Huh.

I love this kind of hard data and exploration.

a potential myth busted me thinks. :D
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Re: Mac OSX Nebula Advice if posible!

Postby musicgreator » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:10 am

Can you do a test in logic, because here logic can't handle the AU.
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