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How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby kylen » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:23 am

RJHollins wrote:It would seem helpful if within the Nebula GUI the real-time INPUT levels could be correlated to the active kernel # that is activated. Just a simplistic idea, I know.
...

I've liked this idea for a long time, some kind of kernel count histogram or max kernel count hit (kind of like the bit meter in Ozone).

Anyway I just sit in front of Nebula with Sonalksis freeg rms meter or a vu meter. I'm not so worried about if it is accurate rms, just relative gain staging, trying to keep Mr. Nebula's white light from turning on (and sounding bad) but at the same time getting my money's worth for kernel usage... :lol:
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby Sheikyearbouti » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:02 am

It is an interesting idea indeed.

It also brings to discussion the topic of setting up an official Acustica standard - certainly a topic that is worth to be discussed within the 3rd party community.

I personally would advocate for opening Nebula above 0dBFS to accommodate for analogue levels that would otherwise not be possible to reproduce right now if we set 0VU @ -18dBFS peak. A floating reference would be even better, but I am guessing that this would bring far too much headache to the programming team. Although if I am not wrong some of the UAD plug-ins already do this.
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby RJHollins » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:12 am

In my 'measily' opinion ... some type of user control could be useful [I suppose] ... but I would not want to deflect from the major programming work that is currently underway. There would be some newer/expanding features that I'd like to see happen [this being soooo off topic], but maturing the MIDI capabilities of Nebula is a production feature that is really hampered in the current state.

We use automation often in mastering ... this is difficult with Nebula, especially when more than one instance is on a track ... like most the time :| Every Nebula instance ends up responding to the MIDI control, instead of just the one focused on. I'm forced to algos to handle automated eq changes :roll:

we now return to the schedualed show ... already in progress :lol:
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby giancarlo » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:43 pm

Sheikyearbouti wrote:It is an interesting idea indeed.

It also brings to discussion the topic of setting up an official Acustica standard - certainly a topic that is worth to be discussed within the 3rd party community.

I personally would advocate for opening Nebula above 0dBFS to accommodate for analogue levels that would otherwise not be possible to reproduce right now if we set 0VU @ -18dBFS peak. A floating reference would be even better, but I am guessing that this would bring far too much headache to the programming team. Although if I am not wrong some of the UAD plug-ins already do this.



you can have it even now.... but most of host software will not allow that. Many hosts are using clamping functions on audio, ie the curve is deformed towards the edge, causing a sort of waveshaping/soft clipper. Infact most of host software sounds very bad when pushed, this is executed in order to prevent clipping on audio devices outputs.
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby Sheikyearbouti » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:28 pm

Ah, very interesting. I thought that all modern DAWs are going/have gone towards very high internal headroom (32bit floating) with the physical I/O + master bus output being the only 24bit bottle neck. I must be spoiled by Pro Tools and Logic than. Not that I ever want to see the clip indicator being red in the mixer, but there it really doesn't matter what happens on the channel path of the mixer as long as your master bus doesn't clip (in fact I would guess that if you clip the master bus in PT and bounce your file at 32bit floating you won't be clipping in the bounced file at all - never tried it though).
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby flipnaut » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:47 pm

...well my orientation is always the clip display of studio one... if it goes red, i put the fader a bit lower.

The result is mostly that the main fader clips... so i put the track faders a bit down until i get a good level also on the summing fader - mostly -6d headroom. Then i put the TB Limiter onto summing and now i try to compress on all faders and check levels... so i try that the brickwall-limiter stands at 0db and doesn't kill too many transients.

For recording i try to track loud as possible to get a good low noise ratio... so very hot levels. If it is too hit for nebula i use the input knob of nebula and put it down if it clips! Mostly i raise then up the gain-knobs to bring the lost volume back.

This is how i work.

Is that wrong?

my recording doesn't bad or?
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby seabstudio » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:17 am

the first time I used the software , i don t understand this gain staging because i was thinking , the gain staging is only for this software .

But after that i see my RME fireface manual and it show the maximum headroom in analogue/digital domain .For me it's -15dbFS=0VU
There is a big confusion for a lot of people .

A lot of studio "clip" AD/DA converter because they was thinking that the orange and red vu is like analogue view ..but it's digital view so keep the signal low if you re sound go out of the box ( headphone / monitoring etc ....) , In all circumstances , not just for Nebula .
Your amp / speaker / monitoring ...mixing console love that !

If the noise is present ( hum / buzz etc ...) check cable / ground connection .It's not a gain staging problem ..

When you put an external hardware and recorded inside DAW -DON'T RECORD HOT it loose a lot of quality - especially drum ...or short transcient sound ( Peak level is important for that )

When you do that you create BAD harmonic distortion , the AD/DA converter of you re soundcard....Don't stress your input / output soundcard ! it's very important ...if you want to record hotter , buy a good tape machine / class A preamp / only analogue ....

Here we want the great harmonic distortion of Nebula ...like real hardware ...so i want a clean signal before Nebula .

When i render a mix , the maximum level ( for me ) is -15dbFS , because it's the PERFECT values for my AD converter ...
If peak level are too much important , put a parallele compression on it , it keep the track natural and reduce the peak level .

Since I 'm doing this , I see a better overall dynamics , a more musical and less tiring to listen

Sorry for bad english , i'm french :)
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby flipnaut » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:58 pm

okay... well i have a summit audio preamp for guitars... but you would say, i should record at around -15db into my daw, right?

I always read the values of studio one... so i really don't understand the differencies between fs, normal db, dbvu and all these things... i really only understand db in my DAW :D

btw. i understand you very good... i'm from germany, Düsseldorf and well... my english is more bad than yours i suppose ;D
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby tbentley » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:42 pm

giancarlo, i think the fastest to way to give clarity to this topic is to post a audio file set to the level you would use for processing with nebula.
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Re: How do you make sure you are hitting Nebula at -18dbfs?

Postby basaristudios@gmail.com » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:24 pm

I am wondering if ALL of the Nebula Programs need 0dbVU
or there are different Programs? Getting the Signal in
at 0dbVU is very easy, problem is which Program what needs.
Best way is get the PSP VU Meter, calibrate to -18dbfs
and then read the Meter at 0dbVU which will make it -18dbfs.
The difference is another Story...lol...very long,
thanks God for EBU R-128 now.
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